Phorest FM Bonus Episode 018: Live From the Salon Owners Summit 2025 With Ken Hughes

Live From the Salon Owners Summit 2025 With Ken Hughes

[00:00:00] Ronan Perceval: You may have noticed we had a bit of wind on Friday. And, uh, I was actually getting a bit panicky that, uh, people weren’t gonna be able to make it when we started hearing about flights being canceled and things like that. But, uh, myself and everyone in Phorest, um, are looking around the room here, and it’s filled to the rafters.

Um, so we feel really grateful to all of you guys for overcoming all those challenges to make sure you got here. And I know a lot of you come from very far and wide, and we’re gonna do our utmost to make it worth your while. 

[00:00:30] PhorestFM S09 Intro: If you’re angry, then you have to look in the mirror. Can you carry on that way?

What do you do with the 10% that you can control? Beauty is generous. What are you gonna learn from as many places and people as possible? 

[00:00:42] Alex Bélisle-Springer: Welcome to PhorestFM, the forward-thinking industry podcast that celebrates inspiring stories from the salon floor and amplifies community voices all over the globe, guided by the idea that together we grow.

Coming to you from Dublin, Ireland, with exclusive PhorestFM live from content, I’m Alex Billis springer, and this bonus [00:01:00] episode is brought to you by Phorest Salon Software

[00:01:20] Ronan Perceval: Ladies and gentlemen, I’d like you to welcome to the stage Ken Hughes, who’s gonna open our Salon Owner Summit 2025. I know I am, but are you ready for it? Yeah

[00:01:47] Ken Hughes: How deeply disappointing it is after that intro and the video that I walk up on the stage and not Taylor Swift. But it’s okay, I have glittery red hot pants on under my trousers. 

[00:01:57] Alex Bélisle-Springer: On our live from episodes, you can expect coverage from the [00:02:00] salon industry events we attend, vox pops, and of course, interviews with industry speakers, coaches, salon owners, and beauty pros, getting to know them better and getting their takes on industry-related topics.

This is one of three bonus episodes from the Salon Owners Summit 2025, or as the phorest.promunity knows it, how top salon owners start the year off right. The Salon Owners Summit is Phorest’s very own two-day conference full of education, inspirational speakers, product updates, and workshops. Born with the salon owner in mind, it’s been designed to give attendees the tools to tackle the year ahead and offer plenty of networking opportunities.

Acknowledged as one of the world’s leading authorities on modern consumer culture, Ken Hughes understands what it takes to provide outstanding customer experiences that keep client retention and your business’s bottom line high. If old-fashioned customer service is getting lost in the noise of automation, digitalization, and depersonalization, the antidote to it all is connection.

And on stage, he broke it down into nine pillars while [00:03:00] showcasing one global brand that nails all of them flawlessly. In this bonus episode, we further the discussion, leaning into third spaces, relationship building, and more. To quote him, “Connection is what we have as humans. Focusing on this connection in your salon, spa, or clinic business will give you an advantage over your competitors and keep your clients coming back over and over again.”

[00:03:26] Alex Bélisle-Springer: Thank you for making the time. Thank you for reaching out. You reached out to me first!

[00:03:28] Ken Hughes: I did because I found your podcast. I was driving, uh, and flying one day, and I decided I’d do some research on Phorest, this wonderful client that asked me to be part of their event. And I literally just Googled the Phorest podcast.

I don’t know how I f- came across you, but at any rate, up you popped, and a couple of episodes caught my eye. And then I listened to one, and then I listened to two. And you always know a good podcast when you’re, like, five episodes in and you’re still- … you’re still listening. And then, I don’t even work in this industry.

Why am I listening to this? Yeah. So yeah, it’s really good content, and I, like, I liked the, uh, for me as a speaker- Mm-hmm … [00:04:00] coming to meet an audience for the first time, you know, you often do that quite cold. Yeah. And it is nice to be able to have a resource where you can hear their stories, hear their struggles, hear their wins, and really kind of feel that you knew their business a little bit before you arrived here today.

So yeah, thank you for providing the content. 

[00:04:16] Alex Bélisle-Springer: My pleasure. My, uh, COO was right in the row behind me, and when she heard you mention very specific things that, like, external speakers wouldn’t necessarily know about coming into a presentation at the summit, sh- it really, like, it really made a difference to her.

Yeah. And I think it probably resonated a lot with salon owners as well. Um, so. Wow, good. 

[00:04:36] Ken Hughes: I do my homework. 

[00:04:37] Alex Bélisle-Springer: Yeah. So here’s the thing. I walked into the main stage room not knowing… I knew you were gonna do something on CX, but I had no idea you were gonna be talking about the SwiftGR meme- 

[00:04:53] Ken Hughes: Yeah … 

[00:04:53] Alex Bélisle-Springer: as much as you did, which I was pleasantly surprised, because I do think it’s a very, very interesting phenomenon.

[00:04:58] Ken Hughes: Yes. 

[00:04:59] Alex Bélisle-Springer: [00:05:00] Um, and I was very interested, ’cause so a few months ago, I listened to an episode, uh, of a podcaster who dove into that kind of phenomenon. And, um, there was definitely a few things that stood out to me in your talk, including, like, just that first of all, it takes so much time to build that kind of relationship with people.

And you said something along the lines of, like- Outside of like when the people are in your business, what do you do to make them feel like they’re still in your business once they’re like well past, you know- 

[00:05:32] Ken Hughes: Yeah. Like, so I am a social scientist. That’s what I am. Fascinated by the psychology of the human mind, by how we live our lives sociologically, by digital anthropology, how our digital worlds are changing how we live our physical lives, and so- Yeah.

So I look at everything through that lens, like through a like who are we, why are we lens. And so when I started following Taylor’s Eras Tour particularly- Yeah … I got sucked in. And by the way, at this point I’ve drunk the Kool-Aid, uh, as you can see- … having listened to me for an [00:06:00] hour, I’m a, a very weird, old- So you’re a Swiftie.

I’m a Swiftie, 100%. There you go. I have like glitter red hot pants on right now as I’m talking to you under my jeans. Uh, I don’t, but that image will burn- Bingo loco … burn into your listeners’ … ears. Um, and so, uh, I became fascinated by the rituals I was seeing around- Mm-hmm … the Eras Tour. And so as an anthropologist, we study ritual to un- like we understand more about someone by looking at how they behave during ritual than you would in everyday life.

Yeah. So if you observe a 24 hours ritual in a community or a, or a, or a tribe, let’s say, you would know more about that tribe than you would if you sat there and watched them for a month. Yeah. And so like rituals… So the ritual around the friendship bracelets, and making the friendship bracelets, and swapping them at the, at the venue, and being part of that community is really interesting.

Mm-hmm. The Taylor gating, all gathering outside the stadium even though you don’t have tickets to spend four hours, even in the rain- Yeah … celebrating the fact that you belong to this tribe. Yeah. So tribal belonging is ev- what every brand yearns for, ’cause tribal belonging is, is the ultimate foundation stone [00:07:00] for customer loyalty, ’cause you belong.

You feel like you belong. Yeah. And that’s why we talked about those Harley-Davidson riders, and those Red Bull drinkers, and those Apple fans who all belong to the… Like, people queue outside an Apple store in, in the dark and the rain for the new thing, even though they have the old thing, they ha- they, they have the new phone.

The phone was fine, but they want the new phone ’cause they, you know. And so- For everyday brands in our lives, like a salon- Yeah … uh, that’s on a high street somewhere, like, think, “Well, I can’t do that. I’m not Taylor Swift.” Oh, no, you can do it easier than she did it because she’s trying to do this across millions of people and, and hundreds of geographies.

Yeah. You’re just doing this in your city. Yeah. Like, and, and you’re just doing this with your customers that you already have their details of on your database. Yeah. A- and so what you’re doing is saying, “Yes, we do your hair, we do your med spa, we do your nails great, but actually we’re more than that.”

Mm-hmm. “Like, we’re not just product.” And so the problem with most business owners is they see themselves as product. They see that they’re looking at the transactions, they’re looking at the sales revenue, the numbers. Yeah. And that’s all important stuff, but what you’re missing there is the relationship.

And so relationship is everything, and we all have relationships in our [00:08:00] lives, be they with family, friends, lovers, whatever, so you know what it’s like to be in a relationship. Yeah. And you know the work that that might take. And sometimes you have tough days in your relationship, and you have to swallow things.

And sometimes you have th- you, you don’t wanna say what you wanna say, and sometimes you have- Yeah. … to listen better and, and that’s the same with customers. Like, you have to- Yeah … if you just see your customer as a, as a walking credit card, to say, “Well, here’s the m- and, and here,” that’s, you’re, you’re gonna…

Good luck with that. Like, good luck with building a business because actually- Yeah … you’re just transactionally focused. Someone else is gonna do it better than you at some point, and that’s it, gone. Whereas if you’ve built a relationship with these people and built a community- Mm-hmm … and built a tribe, then you go past product.

Yeah. And we see many examples across, like in retail, Lululemon did this very well in their stores. They thought, well, a store is a store until it’s not a store. Yeah. So at, at 5:00 PM, when the store closes, why don’t we just do yoga classes and push all the rails back to there and open up the space?

Because our customers are people buying the clothes for that, so why don’t we just invite yoga teachers into the store- Mm-hmm … and for our loyal customers, give them free yoga classes. 

[00:08:53] Alex Bélisle-Springer: Yeah. 

[00:08:53] Ken Hughes: Now you’ve built a community. And so- Yeah … so I think we, my, my ask of all the people here at the conference today was to go back [00:09:00] and look at their brands as relationship brands, not transactional brands.

[00:09:04] Alex Bélisle-Springer: So one of the things that I was, that came to me when, when I was hearing you, uh, deliver the keynote was- The concept of third spaces and how- Yeah … I feel like they’ve disappeared in many ways- Yeah … or they’ve become gated now. You know, like you need to pay for a ticket to access the… Like, there’s a lot more barriers.

I feel like we’ve commoditized a lot of these third spaces. Yeah. Salons at some point in history, in many places, I think barbershops, for example- Yeah … used to be very much built on that kind of- Yeah … foundational, like, third space gathering spot, you know? 

[00:09:38] Ken Hughes: Yeah. 

[00:09:38] Alex Bélisle-Springer: Um, do you think that in an era where we’re at now, where a lot of these third spaces have either disappeared or are now, like, gated, like I said, do you think salons have an opportunity to make their salon essentially a third space?

[00:09:52] Ken Hughes: It’s a great reflection. Yeah, the short answer is yes. I think, like- like, you know, one of the creators of the third space, Howard Schultz of C- of [00:10:00] Starbucks, in the ’70s and ’80s saw that. Yeah. Thought, well, Starbucks is gonna be your third place. Won’t be your home, won’t be your work, it’ll be the third space for relaxing.

And- and they had that for a few years. 

[00:10:08] Alex Bélisle-Springer: Yeah. 

[00:10:09] Ken Hughes: I don’t think anyone… There’s a few exceptions. There- there’s a few hero stores they have in their portfolio that are amazing. But for the majority of us, if you walk into a Starbucks, you don’t feel like you’re in a space. No. You feel like you’re in a- Not anymore

transactional hub of get in, get out and- and, you know… And so it- that’s all gone. And so where do we want to relax and belong? And I- I mentioned it in the keynote today around we already have relationship at our core. Mm-hmm. Like, a hairdresser or a therapist, uh, uh, those spaces are very intimate anyway.

Yeah. You’re dealing with my confidence, my beauty, my soul. We all know that the things they tell their stylist go far beyond what you would tell even a friend sometimes. Yeah. Uh, and so it leans into psychotherapy. Um, and so those spaces, like, if you are renting a space or you own the space, and all you’re doing in it is producing the product that you have over the door and the name- Mm-hmm

I think you’re missing a huge opportunity. And so you want, what you wanna build is build a community of people who all have [00:11:00] some sense of shared value or purpose, and that might be around beauty or aesthetic or community, or it can be anything really, and then open up your space To leverage that belonging and community.

Yeah. And so there’s a really interesting trend at the moment. So nightclubs were a huge product globally for years- Yeah … for the last five or six decades, and they’re dying in their droves now. We’re wa- we’re watching the extinction of the nightclub globally. Mm-hmm. Because people don’t wanna do that anymore.

It doesn’t really just resonate with their values. But they still wanna, of course, meet people and socialize and have fun and dance, so the coffee shops are picking all that up now. Yeah. There’s a global trend now all over the world, West Coast, East Coast of the States, the UK, London, Dublin, where coffee shops are on, usually on a Sunday at 2:00 PM…

So it’s not, it’s not alcohol-fueled or drug-fueled, it’s actually just come and drink your coffee, but let’s party hard for two hours. And it’s quite funny, ’cause it’s often people with children now, and- Yeah … either they leave their kids at home. They can’t be out at a nightclub, you know? And so they think, “Oh, great, we can do it at 2:00 on a Sunday.”

Um, and so the coffee shop, which was just a space that was a transactional space up to that point- Mm-hmm … has [00:12:00] now suddenly become a place of celebration, of party, of social vibe- Yeah … which it didn’t have before. And so then you look up and think, “Oh my God, we could have done this at our coffee shop years ago.

Why don’t, why aren’t we using the space for more? Why are we closing at 6:00 PM?” Mm. Like, “Why aren’t we open till 2:00 AM? Why aren’t we open… Like, why aren’t we doing more?” And a salon will be the same. Like, a salon has a certain, maybe you might think limitations in terms of petty chairs and things, but actually if you look at the space and then well, how often do we invite our customers in?

And we talked about this in the keynote a lot, the way Taylor Swift has always invited her customers in- Yeah … to her videos, into her social media, into her life- Her house … into her house. Yeah. And, she’s invited herself into their lives. And so that’s where we tear away the line between us and them, we tear away the line between producer and consumer- Mm-hmm

and then we become kind of one in a relationship. And so if space is a big part of that, how can we open up our space to have places where people come and game, places where they come and meet, meet- Yeah … where they chat, where they can be together? ‘Cause at the moment I think the majority of the relationship is just between the stylist and the customer.

Wouldn’t it be nice if the customers all had a relationship with each other- Mm-hmm … through our [00:13:00] brand? Like, and s- and let’s face it, here right now what’s happening, we’re at, we’re at the, the Salon Owner Summit, and the entire phorest.promunity are here. So everyone that I’m talking to- Yeah … they own salons.

And Phorest you could argue is just software, but you won’t hear the word just of anyone’s na- name here- No … because it’s all, oh, well, no, Phorest is more than software. Phorest is belonging, community. They understand my business. They help me with my business. Yeah. So Phorest have done a great job themselves of going beyond product into community.

Mm-hmm. And so the challenge for all the audience here is to do the same for their brand and their com- And some will be naturally good at that maybe- 

[00:13:30] Alex Bélisle-Springer: Yeah … 

[00:13:30] Ken Hughes: but that’s only usually the 5 and 10%. 

[00:13:33] Alex Bélisle-Springer: So, you know, blending that line, I feel like can tip into, like, dangerous territory sometimes. What would be, like, boundaries that, like, would be helpful to keep in mind to not blur the lines too much that it becomes- detrimental, if anything, 

[00:13:49] Ken Hughes: to- Okay.

To a re- to a customer relationship, is it? Yeah, 

[00:13:52] Alex Bélisle-Springer: yeah, yeah. 

[00:13:52] Ken Hughes: Yeah. I mean, that- that’s a fair point. So at what point do you invite your customer in and then your customer is now living with you? Yeah. I t- I talked about customer [00:14:00] intimacy. Yeah. So the difference between customer exper- So in dating terms, customer experience is an experience.

[00:14:04] Alex Bélisle-Springer: Yeah. 

[00:14:04] Ken Hughes: So it can be, and you can get a five-star review out of an, out of a really good experience. Oh my God, my hair looks fantastic, the stylist was so friendly, uh, I was really welcoming, five stars. But they just had a singular experience, and that’s like a one-night stand. You can have an amazing one-night stand and go back to your friends thinking, oh my gosh, she was amazing, he was amazing, oh my God.

And you can have that every night now, for instance, for the next five weeks, six weeks. Yeah. You can have a series of one-night stands, but we all know that eventually, after five months of having one-night stands, it becomes a little bit empty. Because eventually you want the intimacy of relationship, because there’s a certain intimacy depth that can’t be achieved with a singular experience.

And so in relationship terms, we would define that as well, relationship intimacy. Yeah. And it’s the same thing, I think, with the, with the client experience. So you can have a series of customers that come through, and that’s great, they’re transactional, but actually you want depth of intimacy. Now, at what point do you go too far, is your question.

Like, at what point do they feel that they have some kind of line on you relationship-wise that’s- Yeah … bordering into psychotherapy. But that’s always existed for the salon business, actually, because the salon business has always been a space where particularly women, probably more than men, would share- Mm.

[00:15:00] Mind you, you mentioned the barbershop earlier on, and I think that was actually a very, uh, it would be a very interesting PhD to do an anthropological study on barbershop, barbershop communities. Yeah. ‘Cause I think for a lot of cultures, particularly maybe certain nationalities, the barbershop was sacrosanct, you know?

Yeah, absolutely. And, as men, it was their refuge- Yeah … from, from work and from kids and whatever stuff, and they weren’t going to get a haircut, they were going in there for hours doing other stuff. Yeah. Whiskey drinking and card playing and whatever it was. Yeah. So again, back to third space, I think, I think we do need to be vulnerable as business owners.

We need to be more authentic. We need to be m- more real, uh, and s- let customers see that we’re not always perfect either. Mm. ‘Cause there’s this illusion that, you know, beauty particularly, you know, you should always look beautiful and you should always be beautiful- Yeah … and that’s why they’re coming to our salons, let’s face it, to achieve that.

Yep. But we also know that that takes work, and there’s days that you don’t feel beautiful, and there’s days that you don’t look beautiful. And so maybe we should be sharing a little bit of that, too. Mm. You know, that, that- Mm-hmm … actually the, the authentic self, you know, and letting- Yeah … the guard down. Uh, and if you end up in stalkerville, then, then yeah, okay, roll- [00:16:00]Yeah

roll back on that intimacy. The ideal is for them to feel they have a relationship with you and not just a… ‘Cause otherwise you’re just another commodity product in their, in their week. Mm. You know? And if you, if you are that, they can leave you at any time. That’s the fascinating thing about commercial brand relationships.

Like, they can cut the string between you and them any day. Yeah. There are way more salons to choose from. And we don’t have that luxury. There aren’t any more customers. I mean, there are- Yeah … but, uh, one that we have right now is better to hold than the new one. We all know the cost of acquisition’s more, and so- Yep

so we need them more than they need us, and we need to think about that all the time. Mm-hmm. Like, they don’t need us. If we, if we shut down tomorrow for whatever reason, they have hundreds more options in their city. 

[00:16:42] Alex Bélisle-Springer: That’s very, very true. 

[00:16:42] Ken Hughes: And- Yeah … it’s terrifying. And, and you think, ah, but yeah, but no one does it as well as…

Yeah, someone else will do it as well, or they can travel a little bit further and find someone who’ll do it as well. And, and so I think we need to really keep that in mind- Mm … and think, okay, well, if that’s true, if everything product-wise can be copied, if pricing can be copied, if, if even stylists’ [00:17:00] skills can be copied or stolen, or talent can be stolen from other salons, then what, what am I left with?

Well, actually, all you’re left with is what your brand means to someone in their heart. Mm-hmm. And that meaning can only be built by investment. And again, going back to Taylor Swift, 15 years continuous investment in customer experience, the fan investment, putting the fan at the center, uh, you know, being openly honest about her life, sharing as much as she possibly could on social media, all done for a reason.

It wasn’t accidental. She grew up around social media. In 2006, when she was a small 16-year-old girl writing songs in her bedroom, this stuff was coming, and she could see the opportunity. If I put stuff on social media, if I… I mean, her very first album, the single releases were chosen through MySpace by her fans.

Yeah. You know, probably a few hundred fans at that stage, but if the next single was voted through MySpace. She was already leveraging the power of the people, the peer-to-peer economy, and driving the product forward that way when people didn’t even know what social media was. So she has been a- Right

people call her manipulative sometimes, but that’s just another word for an entrepreneur who sees opportunity- Mm … and knows how to use the assets- 

[00:17:59] Alex Bélisle-Springer: Yeah … 

[00:17:59] Ken Hughes: in her favor. [00:18:00]

[00:18:00] Alex Bélisle-Springer: I feel like we only kinda have that discourse around women entrepreneurs also. 

[00:18:03] Ken Hughes: 100%, and she has a wonderful monologue about that. She talks about, you know, uh, a woman is called manipulative, a man is called clever.

Mm-hmm. A woman is called… And she has a whole series of words that she keeps flipping back and forward. Yeah. And she, I mean, she looked, again, at her as a role model for, I was gonna say young women, but, uh, that’s actually not true. As a role model for all women and for all men, she stands behind her purpose.

Yeah. And she’s very clear on what she believes in. Yeah. She will sing about what she believes in. She’ll also talk about what she believes in. Um, and so she hasn’t been backed into a corner of, oh, you have to change your opinion because you’re somebody now, and… No, no. A- and I think sh- if, if, and I hear this a lot, oh, well, she, she does that on purpose.

Yeah, so do all brands. Like, all brands decide how they want to show themselves to the world- Yep … because what they’re trying to achieve is growth or market share, whatever. Taylor Swift is no different. She’s a brand. Yeah. And so she will orchestrate the way the brand looks to sell more, to be more, to…

Yeah, so it’s, it’s, it’s this business. Like, she’s, she’s a very- She’s very- … smart businesswoman … businesswoman, 

[00:18:57] Alex Bélisle-Springer: yeah, yeah. Yeah. 

[00:18:58] Ken Hughes: First, I think, actually. Yeah. First and [00:19:00]foremost, you know? She sat at the top of her boardroom table in her management company at, at 15. Dictating. She produced her second album herself at- Yeah

at 17. Like, wow. So she stepped into all these spaces, directing, producing, acting, singing- Yeah … very young. Always struggling, ’cause she was the woman. It was age at first, then it was gen- it was, it was gender and… But she’s pushed through it all, and she’s challenged business model after business model. Like, look at the movie she released out of, of her Eras Tour.

Yeah. Wasn’t released through a distributorship of studios, which is the way you get to cinema. You only get to sh- show in cinema by going through one of the big studios. Yeah. She thought, “Nope. No, we’re going direct.” And she just went all around the studios and re- released that movie direct to the cinemas, took all the money, took all the cut.

Incredible. Her book that she’s just published on the photo book of her tour isn’t published by a publisher, it’s published by herself. ‘Cause why would she pay a publisher 20% or 50%? 

[00:19:48] Phorest Summit Music: Yeah. 

[00:19:48] Ken Hughes: So she just goes around every challenge. She just goes around her, her, her music rights when they were sold from underneath her to, to Scooter Braun.

[00:19:53] Phorest Summit Music: Yeah. 

[00:19:53] Ken Hughes: Not, she wasn’t happy about that. Okay, I’ll re- I’ll re-record all my albums. And she went into the studio and re-recorded each of her albums one by [00:20:00] one and releases them every kind of 12 months, and the whole thing. They s- they sell weirdly more on the second release than they did in the first, slowly devaluing the guy, the assets that are being bought.

Yeah. And she owns them all again now. So it’s just challenging the system, thinking, “Okay, if that’s, if that’s the way you wanna play it, fine, but I’m gonna play it my way.” 

[00:20:14] Alex Bélisle-Springer: Yeah. 

[00:20:14] Ken Hughes: I think we can all learn from that, you know? 

[00:20:16] Alex Bélisle-Springer: Definitely. 

[00:20:16] Ken Hughes: And she’s 36. 

[00:20:17] Alex Bélisle-Springer: Yeah. 

[00:20:17] Ken Hughes: And, like, there’s people who are thinking like, how has a 36-year-old woman changed the nature of the pop industry and the nature of the pop business and the channels we’re using- Yeah

the nature of, of publishing, the nature of movie production? It’s because she just believes in herself, her brand, and her customer. 

[00:20:33] Alex Bélisle-Springer: And being bold. Yeah. 

[00:20:34] Ken Hughes: Yeah. Being bold, yeah. Yeah. And, and s- and holding the line. 

[00:20:37] Alex Bélisle-Springer: Yeah. 

[00:20:37] Ken Hughes: Um, and her energy and, and I mean, if you’ve seen her perform. Have you ever seen her live?

[00:20:41] Alex Bélisle-Springer: No, I haven’t. She is a, a, a stellar performer. Three-hour show. I know there’s a few Phoresters who’ve seen her live. Who’ve 

[00:20:46] Ken Hughes: seen her? Yeah. Yeah. And it’s, it’s a, it’s a, it’s an impressive thing to see someone do three hours solid on the stage, sometimes in the rain, not bat an eyelid. Uh, and, uh, yeah, she’s a, she’s a, a, a powerhouse of a brand and a person.

Uh, and so the [00:21:00] reason, one of the reasons for, she’s been so successful is that authenticity that shines through all her, her being, all her communications. Yeah. Isn’t fake. That’s the point. It’s real. And so the people who are her fans feel that from her and they think, “Wow, she’s real,” in a way that maybe Rihanna isn’t and- Lady Gaga isn’t. They’re kind of performing it. Whereas Taylor is, yeah, she’s as real as it comes. 

[00:21:18] Alex Bélisle-Springer: I’ve got one last question for you. You mentioned that you can orchestrate the way you wanna go, but really when you know you have a brand, it’s because people have a consensus idea of, like, what it feels like- Yeah

to be a part of it. Um, if someone listening to this podcast was to think about opening up a new product line or a new salon and thinking about their brand, what would be the one question that you would have them reflect on? 

[00:21:44] Ken Hughes: Okay. I’m gonna give you two answers. Sorry, you asked for one, but you- you’re getting two.

Uh, the first one is we invite brands into our lives. That always works for me as a very interesting statement. So if anyone comes to choose you and, and use your brand, they’ve invited you into their life, and we need to honor that invitation as you would if you were [00:22:00] invited into someone’s home. 

[00:22:00] Alex Bélisle-Springer: Yeah. 

[00:22:01] Ken Hughes: And so you have to, you have to then be very clear on what your purpose is, to get that invitation in the first place.

The second thing is brands don’t exist. They’re a g- they’re a concept. So your logo exists over your door, and your chairs exist, and your staff exists, and… But that’s not the brand, is it? That’s just the product. Yeah. That’s the delivery. It’s the channel. It’s the, it’s the physicalization. The actual brand is an ephemeral thing.

It’s like a… It’s just a concept, a mental construct. Mm. And so if you’re gonna have a brand, it has to have a purpose, a very clear purpose that I can latch onto and feel. Yeah. So like, if I feel the belonging for Harley-Davidson if I’m riding a bike, and if I feel the belonging for Red Bull ’cause I’m an X-Games skateboarder, if I feel the belonging for Apple, that’s because I have some kind of emotional connection.

Mm. If I feel an emotional connection with Phorest ’cause of all how they helped me in my business, and, and they’ve gone above and beyond, and they’ve excited and delighted me, and they’ve surprised me a few times, and that’s how it works. Yeah. They’ve turned up at my store with a client experience award, and, you know, that makes me feel.

If you’re not making someone feel something, you are just a widget on a shelf being bought [00:23:00] by them when they needed their hair done. Yeah. And so in relax in branding, relationship is everything. You can only have a relationship, of course, if you are very clear of who you are and why you are, so purpose, really important, how you’re different.

So you’d, you would sit down with your white page, and you go, “Why am I different? I’m gonna open a hair salon.” Right. “But there’s already 20 in my town, village, city, so how am I different?” Truly. Not, not how am I gonna do it differently. That’s the product. Yeah. Like, who am I purpose-wise? Why is this different?

Why should they come and choose me? And then how am I gonna show people that I really care? How am I gonna show my appreciation? How am I gonna build this relationship? And relationships do take time to build, as you mentioned earlier on. That’s true. Taylor Swift’s at the top of her game, but, you know, five years ago, they had to give away tickets for some of her arena tours in Europe- Mm

to get them filled. Not so much in America, but that wouldn’t happen now. 

[00:23:42] Ken Hughes: So it takes time, and so you have to… But that’s, uh, like all human relationships, the trust, authenticity are so important, intimacy, and then bit by bit you build it. Sadly, you can erode a relationship really fast with one action- Right

that you’ve taken six months or six years to build, and that’s just true in commerce as well. 

[00:23:59] Ken Hughes: And so [00:24:00] always having your staff building relationships, always being really clear on who your customers are and what they’re going through, what’s going on in their lives, keeping information on all that.

Mm. And a lot of, a lot of… To be fair, a lot of salon owners and staff do this by default. Every time the person sits down, they think, “How was your holiday in the Bermudas?” Yeah. “Oh, my God, how is your dog? I heard you’re sick.” Yeah. They do it because they know that’s the n- that’s the game here. It’s, it’s knowing who the person is, what they’re going through.

Uh-huh. And the product is part of that. The more we can invest in relationship, the deeper that relationship goes, the more bonds you’ve formed of emotive loyalty. ‘Cause br- transaction loyalty, there’s a huge mistake that every business makes. You know, buy nine cups of coffee, get a 10th coffee free. That’s not a loyalty program.

Mm. Mm. That’s just basically… If that was dating, it would be like putting a cage around someone in your basement. You’re trying to lock them in. Like, you’re, you know, “Does this tissue smell of chloroform to you?” Yeah. That’s what that is, you know? It keeps coming to me, ’cause I, I want… Yeah. Whereas actual loyalty is emotive loyalty.

It’s like I couldn’t imagine going getting my nails done anywhere else- Mm … because I would feel I’m cheating on my provider. Yeah. That’s [00:25:00]emotive loyalty, and once you’re in that space as a brand, then you own that customer for life, hopefully. And that’s what we spoke a lot about today in terms of we gave lots of examples in different industries of different brands doing it.

But ultimately, investing in a mode of relationship, a mode of loyalty. It’s not how many times you came back, it’s not… It’s, it’s how… And it’s hard to measure, unfortunately. 

[00:25:17] Alex Bélisle-Springer: Yeah. ‘

[00:25:18] Ken Hughes: Cause if it was easy to measure, it’d be great, you know? But, uh- … we do NPS and we do… But it’s actually, um, are you a promoter? But actually no, someone who is, who feels some kind of connection to you is a loyal customer.

And that, that customer, of course, then shares in their peer network stories about you all the time, and they become your strongest marketing asset. We call them an empowered consumer. They sell your business for you. 

[00:25:38] Alex Bélisle-Springer: Yeah. 

[00:25:38] Ken Hughes: It’s, it’s… And in modern- And that’s the 

[00:25:39] Alex Bélisle-Springer: dream, really … 

[00:25:40] Ken Hughes: modern consumerism, that is the dream.

[00:25:41] Alex Bélisle-Springer: Yeah. Ken, thank you so much for your time. 

[00:25:44] Ken Hughes: You’re very welcome. I’m gonna go and get changed into my red glitter hot pants now. 

[00:25:47] Alex Bélisle-Springer: Yeah. You’re staying for Bingo Loco, aren’t you? Amazing. So I’ll see you there then. All 

[00:25:51] Ken Hughes: right. 

[00:25:51] Alex Bélisle-Springer: See you there. 

—

[00:25:54] Sammy MacDonald: I’m Sammie Macdonald, and I’m from Aberdeen in Scotland, and we have four salons in the north of Scotland called Heritage [00:26:00] Salons.

[00:26:00] Alex Bélisle-Springer: The Salon Owners’ Summit has a theme this year. It’s called Elevate. What is your theme this year? 

[00:26:05] Sammy MacDonald: Oh, our theme has to be surviving the storm ahead. Uh, we’re just looking forward, facing all the challenges that we know are coming, and yeah, excited to try and grow whilst facing adversity. 

[00:26:18] Gemma Jarvis: I’m Gemma Jarvis from Beauty Lounge in Whitstable, Kent, and I’ve been coming to Phorest now for four years.

[00:26:26] Alex Bélisle-Springer: What keeps you coming back to the summit? 

[00:26:28] Gemma Jarvis: Just the connection. I just love connecting with all my peers and, and seeing, uh, see all of you, and just that feelgood factor that you come away with every time. 

[00:26:39] Alex Bélisle-Springer: Thank you so much. Thank you. It’s so nice to see you every year also. 

[00:26:42] Gemma Jarvis: Oh, I love it. It’s like you can’t not come- I know

because you feel like, “What am I gonna miss out on?” I know. So you have to come. 

[00:26:48] Stacey Silvo: Hi, I’m Stacey Silvo from Salon Today. For Salon Today and Data Driven Salon, which we’re a part of, um, I think it’s celebrate great ideas. So we’re [00:27:00] really into harnessing the best practices of salons and creating a forum where we share those ideas with other owners.

And in that, it elevates the whole industry. They tie together. 

[00:27:14] Alex Bélisle-Springer: Thanks for listening to this bonus live from episode brought to you by PhorestFM, empowered by Phorest Salon Software. If you’re on Spotify right now, consider leaving a comment, sharing maybe one small thing about your customer experience that you know is very unique to your salon, your spa, your clinic, and keeps clients coming back again and again and again.

For behind-the-scenes content, check out our social media, and for links and resources mentioned in today’s episode, check out the show notes or visit phorest.pro/fm. And my final ask, hit the share button and send this episode to an industry friend, or if you haven’t already, please subscribe, rate, and review the show.

Your support is what makes this podcast possible. Until next time. 

[00:27:57] Ken Hughes: Look at brands as relationship brands, [00:28:00] not transactional brands. 

[00:28:03] Sam Bélisle-Springer: Brought to you by Phorest Salon Software. In your salon, we’re at the heart of it. This episode was edited and mixed by Audio Z, Montreal’s cutting-edge post-production studio for creative minds looking to have their vision professionally produced and mixed.

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