Phorest FM Episode 335: Jordan White BSN, RN, LSO, CNI on Building Medical Aesthetics Practices That Last Beyond Trend Cycles with Órla Phelan

Episode Transcript

[00:00:00] Jordan White: Um, I always talk about results, it doesn’t matter if you’re, if your experience sucks, right? So you can give someone a great result, but if they have a horrible experience, they’re treated like a number, they don’t have that human-to-human connection, they don’t build rapport and trust with the provider, they- they’re gonna, in their mind, think, “Well, I can go get another good result somewhere else where they actually care about me as a human.”

Um, so the patient experience is really, really huge here. Um, you know, all of my staff knows that’s like number one, number one, and really results come third in our practice. Um, we obviously are gonna get you great results, but your experience is gonna be paramount. Safety is paramount. Then results right behind that.

[00:00:39] PhorestFM Intro Music/Theme: We’ve an obligation to the industry we serve to be serving it the right way. Being a business owner ain’t for the weak. The expat patients are just different. It’s always going- When you’re born into something this special, you can’t help but fight for it. 

[00:00:51] Alex Bélisle-Springer: Cead mile failte. 100,000 welcomes to the PhorestFM Podcast, brought to you by Phorest Software.

I’m your resident host, Alex Billows-Springer. [00:01:00] Known to many in the industry as The Merse Injector, joining the show today is Jordan White, industry-leading aesthetic injector, international trainer, speaker, and owner and founder of Urban Medical.

Events season is well underway in the industry, and for some of the Phorest team, this meant traveling to the Boca Raton Resort in Boca Raton, Florida to attend the Aesthetic Extender Symposium 2026, taking place from August 5th to the 9th. Among the various on-site learning opportunities spread across the symposium agenda, the cadaver lab, workshops, special events, hosted sessions, mosh pit sessions, and educational lounges, a returning AES faculty member came up multiple times on this year’s agenda.

Renowned for his expertise in advanced injectable techniques and cutting-edge laser modalities, he was voted top injector in Arizona by Phoenix Entrepreneur Magazine, and one of the top 20 men of the year by Deluxe Version Magazine. Jordan White, who was set to speak at AES on Friday, [00:02:00] August 7th on the biology that drives laser results and on understanding the why behind your settings, and then again on Saturday, August 8th, doing live demonstrations with injectables and then speaking on managing non-HA vascular events, serves as an international trainer and sought-after speaker, sharing his innovative approach with aesthetic professionals around the globe.

As a respected key opinion leader for several leading aesthetic companies, his work and insights have been featured in prominent aesthetics journals and magazines, underscoring his commitment to excellence and natural results-driven beauty solutions. Jordan is also the owner and founder of Urban Medical, a luxury boutique medical aesthetics practice that offers holistic, comprehensive care to clients.

In the lead-up to the event, Orla Phelan, who heads up the MedSpa division in Phorest, connected with Jordan, and lo and behold, we scheduled some time for a conversation around building medical aesthetic practices that last beyond trend cycles. It is my pleasure to let her introduce this [00:03:00] conversation that I had with Jordan only a few days before AES, before they both met and caught up on site.

[00:03:07] Órla Phelan: We actually met Jordan at a conference last year called the Aesthetic Extender Symposium, and we’ve just come back from that same conference again this year. I actually arrived in on my flight this morning. And what I will say is that it is a fantastic collaboration of people. Everybody echoed the same sentiment.

There is incredible education, warmth, community throughout the whole event, and that is clearly very intentional in the way it was set up. It really is very, very special. It was created by Christie Lennox and Dr. David Goldberg, and next year they actually mentioned that they’re celebrating their 20th year of the show.

So they’ve been building this incredible community for two decades now. How we interacted with Jordan or came across him for the first time was we saw him on stage last year at that event in a panel conversation with Christie herself and a couple of other med spa owners, uh, and key opinion leaders in the space.

And the talk was all around [00:04:00] how the best aesthetic practices are winning in 2025. Really, really, like, the whole conversation resonated so much around what med spa owners need to think about, and he came across so well in that conversation. So in the lead-up to AES this year, we thought- Maybe we should just reach out and see if Jordan would be open to speaking with us to give us some insight into some of the things he’s been working through with Urban Medical over the last year.

Because there’s been a huge amount of change in his practice. Even in the last year, I’ve been kind of following the story between rebranding, he actually talks a little bit about that in the episode, the challenge with rebranding and how that impacts your visibility online, and I know that’s something a lot of owners are going through right now, trying to figure out where does their practice sit between aesthetics, wellness, medical?

What is that correct landing point for what they’re trying to achieve? And we also got to speak with him about what key areas to focus on in the business to make sure you succeed. Because within a med spa, as we know, there’s a lot of choices to be made, a lot of devices, a lot of new services people can [00:05:00]offer, and it’s about where the focus really needs to be held to keep things running smoothly and to continue to grow and be successful.

Um, Phorest also always prides itself on caring about the industry and trying to build community, and I think Jordan speaks about some of the key ways med spa owners can make sure they’re on the right track to succeed and grow. So it’s great to be part of that conversation, focusing in on the right things that they need to, because there is a lot of fluff out there.

Like, there’s a lot of things that can turn people’s heads in terms of trends and things like that. Um, he talks a little bit about the education he does in this space as well, so he’s very well-versed on the challenges that owners face and the things people can be doing that maybe are slowing down their growth unintentionally by maybe not focusing on those tracks that are just those core foundations of how to be successful.

And then there was one conversation in, I’m excited for you guys to listen to it, but there’s one conversation in here around AI that really sparked so many thoughts in me around how, like, where [00:06:00] does AI really benefit businesses, and then where are the risks associated with leveraging AI or things that might be actually hindering a practice?

But I think, to be honest, there’s a whole other episode on that by itself for another day. Um, but going back to the episode with Jordan, his practice is working with Aviva Aesthetics, so that’s a h- another huge milestone that they’ve made in the last year, uh, working with a partner like that and taking their practice to the next stage.

But for me, really, having had listened to the episode The biggest highlight for me was getting to hear about Jordan’s background, how he created Urban Medical in the first place, what drove him to set it up, and then his background working in trauma and the evolution from there to becoming this incredible med spa owner and educator.

Um, some of the best conversations I’ve had with owners personally in this space have been around their journey to it. It’s always the part that I love the most, but I did find Jordan’s particularly fascinating and so enjoyable to listen to. So I’m very excited for everybody to get to listen to this episode and to learn more about Jordan, for those of [00:07:00] you who aren’t familiar with him.

His approach to the industry and his thoughts behind it are really fascinating, and I hope everybody here gets to enjoy it. 

[00:07:07] Alex Bélisle-Springer: Thank you so much for joining me on the PhorestFM podcast, Jordan. Welcome to the show. 

[00:07:12] Jordan White: Thanks for having me, Alex. I appreciate it. 

[00:07:14] Alex Bélisle-Springer: Of course. We’re recording this ahead of AES 2026, which Phorest was at last year, and you have a pretty busy schedule at the event this year.

How are you feeling going into it, and what are you looking forward to? 

[00:07:27] Jordan White: Yeah, no, it’s definitely gonna be a busy time. Um, you know, I- AES is by far my favorite conference of the year, so, um, when Christy reached out and asked to have me back for a second year in a row, I was, I was thrilled. Um, the event itself is just really high quality.

You know, it’s, um… I, I always joke and say it’s not like the cool kids club like a lot of these conferences turn out to be, like the social cliques and who’s who. This is really just a lot of educators coming together that care about learning and, and growing personally and professionally. Mm-hmm. And you can really feel that, um, in just [00:08:00] the aura of the entire event.

So, um, obviously looking forward to the event, but I, I can’t lie and say I’m not looking forward to sipping a piña colada on the beach as well. Me too. So, uh, yeah, it’s gonna be a great time. I’m really excited about it. 

[00:08:14] Alex Bélisle-Springer: Yeah, it’s gonna be great, no doubt. So listen, in the industry, you’re known as the Merce Injector.

You also have your own practice, Urban Medical. You’ve got two locations, two teams, one in Arizona and the other one in Virginia. What came first, the nickname people know you by or Urban Medical? 

[00:08:32] Jordan White: Yeah. So technically, the Merce Injector came first, which was a spinoff. My background before getting into the aesthetic realm, um, was critical care and trauma.

And so, um, I, I think it’s actually still up and available. I will warn folks, it’s a little gory because of the background and what I was doing, but, um, I was known as the Flight Merce. Um, and so I had an Instagram handle. It was the Flight Merce. And so when I made the jump and pivot into aesthetics, um, it actually [00:09:00] wasn’t even my idea.

I think one of my followers was like, “You totally need to jump on the Merce Injector and keep the theme rolling.” And I was like, “That, that’s brilliant. I really should.” So, um, I made that and, and ran with it, and i- it’s, it’s worked. It stuck. So, um, that came first, and then Urban Medical has actually been recent.

Um, we’ve been Urban from day one, but we’ve gone through a few renditions of that. So… Or I guess- Hmm … I should say DBAs, right? So it was, um, Urban Aesthetics and Skin Bar when we first, first started way back in the day, and then we did Urban Aesthetics and Wellness because we wanted to tie in wellness. Um, but then I realized, so I brought on my partner, Katie, who, uh, her background’s been, uh, 12, 13 years family practice.

She was, like, the director of public health for the large, uh, city here that we’re in. Um, and I said, “We, we need to do more than just wellness,” because everyone around here, you know, they put an IV in someone’s arm, and now they’re a wellness clinic. And we’re doing much more than that. We’re doing really, really advanced testing, Dutch testing, oat [00:10:00] testing, uh, urine analysis, um, just a true holistic picture for functional medicine really.

[00:10:07] Alex Bélisle-Springer: Hmm. 

[00:10:07] Jordan White: And I thought, “Well, can we tap into that market?” Because I wanna differentiate ourselves from just every other place that’s aesthetics and wellness. And so just last year, um, we made the jump and the switch to Urban Medical to be more inclusive of all of what we do. 

[00:10:21] Alex Bélisle-Springer: And how’s that, how’s that transition been for you?

Like, how are you landing in that space? 

[00:10:25] Jordan White: You know, it’s been really good. The beginning was very rocky. Um, our website designer and SEO, uh, folks kinda gave us a warning that, you know, when you change your name and your website name changes, there’s gonna be a dip. Um, I don’t think any of us were truly prepared for how drastic that would be.

We had built, um… I guess our SEO was really high. We were ranking, like, number one on Google. Um, and overnight, you know, looking at Google Analytics, it just crashed. It plummeted. 

[00:10:54] Alex Bélisle-Springer: Mm. 

[00:10:55] Jordan White: Um, we were really fortunate in Arizona. We didn’t feel it very much because we [00:11:00] just had such a strong base. But, um, we actually…

Even though I’m from Virginia, I opened here in Arizona first. Right. So I was living here. So Virginia was a little more new, and so they hadn’t built that, that retained the clientele base yet. So they definitely felt it much more than we did. Um, but I have to give credit to our marketing director, Sarah, who I know you’ve been in touch with.

Um, she really hunkered down and spent tireless hours with our web designer and SEO guy to just put content out, build the Google page, and just pull leads back in. And so luckily, it was, like, two weeks of rough waters, and then we were back. So, um, just a fair warning for anyone doing a name change. It’s not just a simple as hitting continue on the Google page.

That’s for sure. 

[00:11:43] Alex Bélisle-Springer: Yeah, yeah, yeah. You’re gonna have to weather the storm a little bit. 

[00:11:47] Jordan White: You do, for sure. 

[00:11:49] Alex Bélisle-Springer: So, um, I mean, my curiosity’s piqued. So you said you had a background in critical care and trauma, and the way I understand a good trauma-informed approach is, i- it’s [00:12:00] one that has a holistic approach to things.

Um, so I’m curious. Like, have you always had a holistic approach to things in life, um, you know, that, that would carry itself over into whatever specific field of your career you’d go into? 

[00:12:13] Jordan White: Yeah. I think, you know, the back- with my background in flight specifically, and, and critical care in general, you know, we’re taught from, from the beginning to not get tunnel vision.

I think that’s one thing that makes a flight nurse extremely good is, you know, if you put just a, a, a normal nurse, per se, not trained in that environment into a chaotic situation where maybe you’re landing on an interstate, you’ve got… God forbid, you’ve got some already deceased. You’ve got just, you know, a car accident.

Mm-hmm. There’s a lot of stimulation, um, that could easily distract you from the task at hand. Yeah. And so you become really good at not tunnel visioning into one thing. You, you keep your eyes open to the whole picture, and I guess you could call it situational awareness. And, and so as- M- m- maybe more on a micro [00:13:00] level in aesthetics, I definitely feel like that’s something that’s helpful.

Um, and I guess I would create the analogy of someone comes in and they’re complaining of nasolabial folds, right? Mm-hmm. Many providers are gonna jump straight in and s- and get tunnel vision and focus on that. Well, let’s step back and look at the aging process. What’s actually contributing to those folds?

Um- Right … more times than not, it’s not that they’ve lost volume in the folds themselves, they’ve lost volume posteriorly. What’s their skin? Do we need to treat their skin before we start to add injectables? So that definitely brought a more bird’s-eye view to the picture, for sure. Um, and then the other thing that I definitely noticed, and I, I train all over the country, and I will say people that come from a trauma, critical care, emergency room background, they definitely aren’t afraid to get their hands dirty and get in and do the job.

Mm-hmm. I, I find a lot of folks that don’t have that background, they’re much more Um, I don’t wanna say overly cautious, but sometimes they struggle with technique. You know, they struggle with a cannula. It scares them to [00:14:00] have that pop when they’re, they’re transitioning through the planes of tissue. So I definitely think that that helps.

You know, going from- Yeah … putting a chest tube in someone’s chest to putting a cannula in the face, you know, 

[00:14:11] Jordan White: Yeah. … uh, I’ll do the cannula in the face any day then, than stick my finger into someone’s chest wall. So, um, it, it… That definitely helps and prepares you for the aesthetic side. 

[00:14:20] Alex Bélisle-Springer: Yeah, for sure.

The ability to stay calm, zoom out, see the whole picture. If you were to strip it all back to fundamentals, like, what are two or three things you think a med spa really has to get right, regardless of their size, market, or whatever’s trending in the moment, to be successful long term? 

[00:14:39] Jordan White: Yeah. I think the number one thing I see that sets people apart, and you can tell this from the moment you walk in their door, um, I mean, with it, I call it the 30-second rule.

Generally, there’s 30 seconds, and I can really tell someone if they’re gonna be successful over the next, you know, one, three, five years. Um, and the first thing is what is their priority? Um- Mm … if their priority is [00:15:00] money, if their priority is status, um, th- they’re not gonna do well. And if they do well, it’s literally because they’re just…

They’re hustling so much, they probably have no work-life balance, and they’re miserable. Um, but in general, you know, making sure your priorities are, are the right priorities. Why are you doing what you’re doing? Is it to help people? Is it to make people feel better in their own skin, more confident? And then, you know, at the end of the day, we’re taking care of people.

These are human beings with emotions and feelings, and they’re coming to you with a problem, and we’re the expert, and that’s what many people forget. Um, you know, people kind of cower at the idea of giving a full treatment plan out to their patient because they’re like, “Oh, I don’t wanna overwhelm them,” or, “Oh, I’m, I’m nervous about, you know, pitching this 5,000, $6,000 treatment plan.”

Um, you know, if you go to a cardiologist and you need a heart workout, they’re not gonna not offer everything you need because they’re worried about your budget or whatever it may be. Yeah. And so we’ve really fallen away from the idea that we are [00:16:00] a medical industry, you know? And unfortunately, we’re becoming, uh, commoditized.

Injectors and providers alike are… It’s a race to the bottom. They’re trying to make it feel like a Sephora, where you just come in, pick what you want a la carte, and leave. Mm-hmm. Um, but that doesn’t set patients up for success. Um, and the satisfaction rates in those clinics are very low. So the first thing would be getting your priorities in line, making sure you’re doing it for the right reason.

And very close behind, which really relates, is taking care of your patient and really focusing on the patient experience. Um, I always talk about results don’t matter if your, if your experience sucks, right? So you can give someone a great result, but if they have a horrible experience, they’re treated like a number, they don’t have that human-to-human connection, they don’t build rapport and trust with the provider, they- they’re gonna, in their mind, think, “Well, I can go get another good result somewhere else where they actually care about me as a human.”

Yeah. Um, so the patient experience is really, really huge here. Um, you know, all of my staff knows that’s like number one, number one, and really results come third in our practice. [00:17:00] Um, we obviously are gonna get you great results, but your experience is gonna be paramount. Safety is paramount. Mm. Then results right behind that.

Um, so that would be two of the three, and then the last thing obviously would be just clinical education and competence. You have to be competent. Everyone starts somewhere, um, but I see too many people invest, uh, in their education for, let’s say, the first year because it’s, it’s like that, uh Oh gosh, is it the Dunning-Kruger effect?

So it’s like climbing Mount Stupid. So you know, you, in the beginning you’re like, “Oh my gosh, I don’t really know much.” And then as soon as you learn a little, now you feel like you’re just an expert, and you’re- Yeah … you’re at that peak of Mount Stupidity. And then there’s normally something that happens to humble you, you know, whether that’s a complication, whether that’s a, you know, a patient, a horrible review.

Maybe it’s a colleague, y- giving you an honest and humble, uh, opinion. Um, whatever it may be, you, you come back down to reality in a sense, and then from that point, the more [00:18:00] you learn, the more you understand what you don’t know. Mm. And I think that’s where the growth in the industry happens. So too many people kind of climb that Mount Stupid and then never hike down the other side, and they don’t invest in their education.

They kind of get to where they’re comfortable, and comfortability is to- it leads to toxicity. You know? I’ve always, I’ve called it like the triad of failure. Um, you become comfortable, um, and when you become comfortable you become stagnant. And just like running water, if you become stagnant and you’re not progressing, you’re gonna become toxic.

Um, and so I think that’s really important to always invest in your education. Not just conferences. Conferences are great, um, but one-on-one learnings. You know, read journal articles, subscribe to the JAMA Journal of Medicine, or Plastics, or Derm. Um- Yeah … always know what’s best for your patient. You can’t provide the best results if you don’t know what’s up to date with evidence.

[00:18:49] Alex Bélisle-Springer: Yeah, and I’ve got to say, as someone whose go-to analogies and metaphors relate to water, um, I appreciate the image you just gave there. Yeah. It’s also not lost on me how there’s a natural values [00:19:00] alignment here with one of Phorest’s core values, the growth mindset, and in general I think if you’re gonna be in business you have to have a growth mindset.

Like things are never gonna stay the same, so. Um. If you’re not 

[00:19:10] Jordan White: growing, you’re dying. 

[00:19:11] Alex Bélisle-Springer: Yep. Exactly. Um, I wanna bring it back to something you mentioned about, you know, um, really caring for the patient. Um, I’ve had a conversation earlier this year on the podcast around this which was really fascinating to me, but you know, in the context of today where, well, people are online all the time.

You, you see p- photos on social media. You have like these expectations of what a treatment can maybe, you know, provide you. Um, when, when it comes to like transformation versus enhancement, I feel like there’s a live tension there, and I’m curious to know how you hold the line between, you know, giving a patient what they would like and, and you know, and what’s right for them, especially when, you know, there’s money on the table to just say yes.

Obviously it comes back to the principles, but yeah. 

[00:19:54] Jordan White: Oh, for sure. And, to start, you mentioned technology, and I think that’s a really important part, and it’s something [00:20:00] that, it’s a double-edged sword. On the flip side, everyone has answers in the palm of their hand all day long, and while that is great when it’s used- responsibly, you know, to research the procedures, research the providers, research evidence-based medicine, that’s, that’s great.

But we’re also seeing things, and, and I’m not gonna say the name, I don’t even know the name, so it’ll keep me safe, but there’s a new product out there, um, that’s making waves, um, not for the best of reasons. And essentially what it does is it allows a patient… It’s supposed to be a marketing tool for med spas, but it allows a patient to upload a selfie, and then they select the areas on the face they don’t like, and then it’s supposed to give a rendering of, like, what it would be if this patient got cheek filler or lip filler.

Hmm. And it’s using AI to basically slap that on them In theory, it, it, you would think it would be a great idea, but what we’re seeing, and, and we don’t have this, but I’ve read, you know, numerous forums of practice owners that brought it on, and, and it sounds like a good idea, but what’s actually happening is these patients are coming [00:21:00] in and they’re having this perfect AI model.

And so it’s setting the practice and the providers up for failure because we’re not AI, you know? You- we’re dealing with an actual human lip anatomy. We’re dealing with facial anatomy. Yeah. There are limitations to what we can do safely. And so I do think that in a way it’s really setting us back because patients are coming in with unrealistic expectations.

It’s kind of like the old school thing, which I never would have s- thought I would be saying this, but I would rather them come in with a picture of J.Lo and be like, “I want her skin or her lips.” Because I can easily say, “Well, look, you’re not J.Lo. You know? You have different DNA, you have different genetics.”

And that’s a much easier conversation to have than trying to explain, “This is not realistic. We can’t do this. This is AI, it’s not real.” So many people don’t understand it’s not real. Mm. Um, but to… Furthermore, for your question, you know, I think integrity is… it just, that’s the word that comes to mind. I cannot tell you how many times I tell people no in our practice.

And I think early on I [00:22:00] probably was more scared to say no. You know, it’s a lot harder, to be honest, to say no when you don’t have a packed schedule, when you are, you know, dealing with hour gaps in your schedule on a daily basis because, you know, you’re… if you’re not seeing patients, you’re not providing revenue or to the business or yourself.

So now I… You know, once you’re busy, I think it’s a little easier, but I will say I’ve always been- I’ve been held to integrity. My dad’s a dentist, and from an early age- Mm … I remember him always saying, “Always treat your patient like it’s myself or your mother, and as long as you do that, you’ll never go wrong.”

And in all principles. You know, we’re human. We’re gonna make mistakes. We’re gonna do- Yep … something in our career where we don’t have the best outcome or we agree, we’re like, “You know what? That didn’t turn out the way we wanted.” So fix it, you know? That’s the first thing. But telling people no, it’s scary at first, but what I realized after years of doing it, 90% of those patients, and I’m just throwing out a, a rough number, I would guess, nine out of 10 patients, they end up respecting you [00:23:00] more for it.

They realize that you’re not just in it to sell them a product they don’t need, and all of a sudden they open up so much more. It’s like, “Okay, he told me no because he doesn’t think I need this. He doesn’t think it’s gonna look natural. It’s not gonna give me what I want.” And many times those patients come back and before they were coming in with what they wanted, and now they’re the ones in your chair saying, “You know what?

I trust you. What do you think I need? What… This isn’t what… I don’t love this about me, but what do you think is the best route to go?” So by being honest and transparent and not always succumbing to the pressures of your patient or society to give them what they think they need and doing what is best clinically and ethically- Mm-hmm

uh, will always serve you in your practice well. 

[00:23:39] Alex Bélisle-Springer: Right. And it doesn’t only just protect the patient, it also protects the standard of the industry. And I think that connects really naturally to the role you’ve taken on as an educator because, you know, doing the right thing has to start with knowledge and education.

I would love for us to go there next, but just before we do, I guess my next question is more of a tangential technical one. [00:24:00] Um, if, you know, if we’re gonna provide high standards of care, um, we’ve gotta have systems that allow us to run things smoothly and efficiently. Do you see any, like, fragmentation, I guess, in the systems that, um, y- you know, med spas or clinics or different practices are using, like scheduling, point of sale, client records?

Is, is it something that, like, is challenging in, in, um, in this sector currently? Is this something maybe you experienced? 

[00:24:28] Jordan White: Yeah. You know, I’ve always said I feel like one of the problems with software companies that jump into the arena is that more times than not, it’s clear that it’s not a clinician or a medical provider developing, right?

And there’s definitely, like, this, this, uh, gap that goes from you, you can have the best of software developers that are at the top of their game, and they can produce really great software that’s an A+. Um, and vice versa, you might have someone who’s a clinician that can really make sure that a ton of stuff is [00:25:00] included, but they’re not gonna be able to build software.

Like, they can be a great voice of what’s needed, and I find very rarely do those intertwine and mesh well to produce, like, an optimal product. So I, I do think that in, in the perfect world, and again, we know, Alex, that we d- we don’t live in a perfect world. But if there was such a thing, you know, having a, a product that really checked all the boxes from communications, so, you know, keeping it in that system with patient communication, um, having, uh, the ability to chart, um, appropriately.

Um, I’m just going through all the things that we’ve struggled with with platforms we’ve used. Um, having memberships that are very customizable, you know. We have memberships that each membership is very different. Maybe we want money banked, maybe we don’t want money banked. Maybe we wanna give them a certain amount out of what they spend- Hmm

each month into that bank and not the full allocation. Um, before and after, oh my gosh, that is one of the hardest things because- … you know, uh, the… A- and I won’t name names with the [00:26:00] platform we’re with right now, that’s one area that I’m like, “Man, this is horrible.” So the second you, you know, l- if you use an iPhone, quality’s great.

If you use that same iPhone but you go through the app and you take the photo through their gallery, um, it- it’s grainy, it’s not good. So, um, there’s always room, I think, for improvement, but ultimately a product that does cross multiple arenas or kinda intertwines throughout many of those arenas would be great, you know?

[00:26:28] Jordan White: it’s hard to, it’s hard to find, for sure. Yeah. 

[00:26:30] Alex Bélisle-Springer: Right. So not dissimilar to other sectors of the, the wider beauty and wellness industry, yeah. So I guess, like, back to leadership, education, mentorship then. Um, you train providers across the country on injectables and lasers. What has made education a core part of your identity and role in the industry?

[00:26:50] Jordan White: Yeah. You know, I’ve always had a passion for education. Um, even back in my critical care days at, at our flight base, um, I was the lead clinical educator for, [00:27:00] for a while, um, training new flight nurses, training new paramedics. Um, and I just feel like- It’s, it’s empowering, um, on the selfish side. We’ll start with that.

It’s empowering to me to train because it keeps me up to date on everything. You know, I can’t be training someone if I don’t know what I’m training on forwards and backwards, so it helps keep me sharp. Um, but then I also look at the aesthetic industry, and there’s so many people out there that gripe, and they complain, and they put others down, and they…

But they’re never doing anything about it, you know? It’s, uh, they’re keyboard warriors, and they basically just blast on Instagram, and that’s what they contribute to the profession. And I thought, “How can I actually go out and make a difference? If I wanna see a change, how can I help make that change?” And so education is, like, the number one thing I can do and, and use my platform to do that.

And so, um, you know, a good example is yesterday… I… Last night, I was doom scrolling on Instagram before bed, and [00:28:00] I was just wowed at how many providers who… You know, your patients follow you. Hopefully, they think you’re a reputable source of knowledge and information, and they’re gonna take what you say seriously.

And I got so frustrated that I had to put my phone down because time after time, I would see these providers who claim to be these master injectors, which by the way, Alex, doesn’t exist. There’s no sort of title or credential for this. It’s a self-prescribed title. Um, you know, and it’s people that y- have been trained four months ago by me or someone else, and now they’re all of a sudden, like, an international trainer.

Um, and so… And then I’m listening to what they’re saying, and I’m like, “This, this isn’t accurate. This isn’t founded in evidence. This is not, this is not science. This is just an opinion that’s been turned in to sound like factual data.” Mm. And I made a post, and, and I ended it basically just warning people, “Don’t take everything you see to heart here.

You know, it’s become like the modern-day Wikipedia. Everyone can log on and make edits to Wikipedia, so before you know it, who knows if it’s real.” That’s Instagram today. Um, and [00:29:00] I ended with saying, like, “These providers are probably the same ones that tell people not to lay flat after tox.” And oh my goodness, my phone, I, I probably have 100 messages that I haven’t gotten to and DMs.

Because all these patients, and, and providers included, are like, “What do you mean you can lay flat?” And it’s just been like this, this myth that’s been perpetuated throughout the years because somewhere they taught, like, don’t lay flat after you get your tox. Well, my argument is, one, there’s no data to support that.

Zero. There’s no, no white paper studies, research, nothing. Um, and, and I’m assuming that it’s because people were like, “Well, if you lay flat, you know, maybe it could migrate or move, touch a muscle you don’t want.” Well, gravity is a real thing, so if we’re standing vertically and that’s the case, wouldn’t that tox just be dripping down our forehead and, you know, it doesn’t re- Yeah

it doesn’t work like that. Go lay down. I, for my entire career, I’ve never told patients to, they can’t lay flat, ’cause it never made sense. Um, but it’s crazy to see how much that’s been perpetuated in our industry, that even providers that I respect [00:30:00] are like, “Oh my gosh, I’ve just always been told that, so I- I’ve always told my patients, and now I sound ridiculous.”

And it’s like, well, you don’t sound ridiculous, but it’s clear that, you know, you’re, you’re saying things that you haven’t researched yourself. Um- Mm … so that’s, that’s where it gets dangerous. So that’s why I love education. I love to be out here and trying to make a difference. Hopefully, you know, I just saved a tired mom, uh, and gave her a nap, because she doesn’t have to sit vertically or stand up anymore.

Yeah. Um, but little things like that, you know? It’s, it’s a way that we can actually- Yeah … flick change. 

[00:30:32] Alex Bélisle-Springer: Yeah, yeah, 100%. Well, at AES, you’re speaking on the biology that drives laser results on understanding the why behind your settings. Uh, you’re giving a live demo with injectables, and then you’re also speaking on managing non-HA, uh, vascular events.

What’s your flavor of education? ‘Cause all of these things are, you know, different- They are. Yeah … in, in their own ways. Yeah. 

[00:30:54] Jordan White: Yeah. N- you know, I love lasers. I, I, I love injectables. I, I really love it all. Um, one of the things I like [00:31:00] to do is I like to look… And this is something that I, I have to give shout-out to Christi Lennox, who heads up AES.

Um, give her a shout-out for this because she always is like… She asks us to come up with topics that we’re passionate in, but then also makes sure that there’s a need for it, you know? Mm. I could be passionate at, like, I don’t know, butterflies and- … you know, but she… It’s, it’s like, “No, y- what’s actually practical?

What is gonna… What’s gonna help- Yeah … people walk away and change their practice?” Um, and so lasers have always been something I’m passionate about, from… I was very lucky. I started with lasers day one, uh, once I got into this industry, so I’ve really had a lot of experience with it. I find that the reason I’m passionate about lasers is 99% of people are so underutilizing their laser devices, and I blame that 100% on these laser manufacturers and laser companies.

You know, their training is basically, um, for a lack of better words, it… They have to tailor it to the lowest common denominator in the industry. And, you know, when you have [00:32:00] states that are completely unregulated, and y- Joe Schmo can just come in off the street and run a laser, you know, they’re gonna teach something that’s…

can be safe no matter what they do, right? They’re trying to minimize risk, and I, I get that, but they don’t do a great job of following that up for providers that are hungry for knowledge to say, “Okay, you’ve learned the basics. Now let’s actually show you how to get results.” Um, so you’re left with these providers that have a two or a $300,000 paperweight And they’re not utilizing it to its full capacity.

They’re not getting results. And then they think it’s the laser, and then it gets a bad rep. And, I’m not speaking to any one company. This is globally. This is, this is just- Yeah … what we see everywhere. And so I started doing more advanced training ’cause I really do push these lasers to their limit, you know, in a safe way.

But again, there is a way to do that safely. And so that’s really what those talks are about, one, not just treating the patient based on standard run-of-the-mill QRG settings or quick reference guide is what they call it. Mm-hmm. Where you just look at the paper and it’s like, “Okay, they’re a FITZ-3. Here’s your settings.”

[00:33:00] That is, that’s for the birds. You’re never gonna get a good result with that. Um, and so that’s, that’s my passion for lasers is optimizing results. Patients, I’m a firm believer in this, patients do not come in to buy a treatment, they come in to buy an outcome, and we need to focus on delivering that outcome, uh, safely, right?

Mm-hmm. Yeah. So that’s the laser side of things, and it really is kind of echoed into the injectables as well. Um, I love complications and, um- … and I know that sounds really weird, but maybe it- … it’s the room, maybe it’s the plane. Tell 

[00:33:32] Alex Bélisle-Springer: me more. Yeah. 

[00:33:33] Jordan White: Um- Is 

[00:33:34] Alex Bélisle-Springer: it, is it the challenge in it- Yeah … in like, you know, figuring out what happens af- what, what happens next essentially?

[00:33:37] Jordan White: Yeah. I think, you know, you’ll never take the adrenaline junkie out of me. Um- Mm … and luckily, I, I, I… we don’t have many complications, uh, here at all with our practice. I’m… Like I said, we’re really safety first. Um, but because I use ultrasound, because I have, uh, because I’m a nerd when it comes to complications, I do get sent many complications from other providers, um, [00:34:00] which I’m humbled by that they respect me and they, they know that I’m gonna take care of their patient.

Um, but I, I do. I really enjoy it. And, you know, one, it’s, it’s fixing an acute problem, right? And depending on what that acute problem is, it may be emergent. It may be something we have to really correct right now, and I, I really enjoy that, and I think that’s just from my old background of critical care.

Um, but also- Mm … being able to just fix someone in need, you know. They come to you. It’s not just… And I don’t wanna downplay cosmetics. I mean, that’s life-changing for many people. But even I would argue even more life-changing is making someone keep their lip that has an occlusion. You know, being able to restore blood flow.

That’s a big deal. Um, and it keeps me on my toes, you know, that it’s always different. Uh, there’s no one way to approach a vascular occlusion. Um, and so that goes into actually my last talk, um, which is truthfully the one I’m most excited about. I’m gonna be presenting data that was done by Dr. Danny Soares and Dr.

Alec McCarthy, um, that, uh, it’s gonna be the [00:35:00] first time really anyone’s hearing about it formally because the data has been accepted, um, to be published but has not yet been published, and it’s really gonna flip the script and paradigm on how we manage these, um, specifically non-HA, like PLLA and CAHA or Radiesse occlusions.

Um, what we have thought for a long time is not actually correct. Um, and so it gets me excited. I guess that’s the nerd in me. I, I… When I read these things- Yeah … oh my gosh, this is so different, and we’re doing this wrong. I wanna be on the mountaintop shouting it to people because, um, if we’re not doing it the right way, we’re, it’s, we’re not helping people.

[00:35:35] Alex Bélisle-Springer: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, well, now I’m really getting FOMO about not being at the event. But, uh, but there’s such a clear thread in what you’re saying. Like, when it comes to this desire to push the industry forward in a way that’s safe, that’s responsible, and, and, you know, ultimately better for patients. Is there something you make sure to integrate or bring into every talk no matter whether your talk is focused, say, on lasers or injectables?

[00:35:57] Jordan White: Man, a common theme. I, you [00:36:00] know, there’s, there’s probably a few common themes, and, and it might sound a bit duplicative from our beginning of the discussion, but the biggest thing is take care of your patient, you know? Um- Mm. You shouldn’t put the dollar first. You shouldn’t, uh, think with your patient’s wallet, you know?

That’s something that I have been horrible at, I’ll be honest. I’ll own that. That’s been one of my fatal flaws. And becoming a business owner… You know, I went through nursing school. Um, I didn’t go to business school, and so I’ve really had to learn as I go. And while I do feel like we’ve… I’ve created a very successful business, and certainly through trial and error, um, I found myself early on subconsciously- Yeah

judging what patients could afford, whether that was just how they presented themselves. Um, you know, uh, I’m not afraid to say it, I, I won’t obviously say her name, but one of our wealthiest patients, um, that is a multi-multimillionaire, um, before I really knew who she was, her background, you know, I, I probably didn’t…

I certainly did not assume she was a [00:37:00] multimillionaire because she would come in in cowboy boots covered in, like, horse manure, um, and her hair all a mess ’cause she’s been out at the farm. And this lady is extremely wealthy. She does a great… runs multiple businesses. But, you know, for her, that’s… it’s just money, you know?

And that’s, those are the people I really love, um, when it’s not, they’re not just wearing it on their face like, “Hey, here I am.” 

[00:37:23] Jordan White: But as a provider, um, on the business side strictly speaking, I would find myself- Thinking of, okay, here’s the things that they need, but I don’t wanna offend them and scare them away by giving them this fat treatment plan that’s thousands of dollars over the course of the next 12 months.

So maybe I’ll whittle it down to maybe just, like, the best two or three things. 

[00:37:44] Alex Bélisle-Springer: Yeah. 

[00:37:44] Jordan White: And you’re really not helping yourself, and you’re not helping the patient in that situation because you’re basically shopping with their wallet. They’re not coming to us as their finance sh- financial advisor. They’re coming to us with a problem, and they’re expecting us to give them the best solution, [00:38:00] and if you’re not doing that, you’re, you’re not doing what’s best for the patient, and that’s one thing that it took me years, I mean, honestly, like- 

[00:38:07] Jordan White: four years to really learn. Um, and that has changed the game. Patients are getting better results because they’re actually doing what I’m recommending, and the business is doing better because I’m not, I’m not cutting our, cutting down our revenue almost intentionally without even knowing it. So taking care of your patient, doing what’s best for your patient, um, not shopping with their wallet.

Those are definitely common themes, and then just clinical competency. Again, that’s a big thing. I always preach to understand the why behind what you’re doing and the how. 

[00:38:39] Jordan White: So many people… The reason I can’t stand, uh, I’ll just say, like, MD Codes. There’s a pr- I won’t say the name of the company, but there’s a company out there that has this, like, algorithm of how you inject the face with filler.

Um, and essentially, it’s, like, the same on every person. Well, the problem is every single person’s different. 

[00:38:56] Alex Bélisle-Springer: Yeah. 

[00:38:57] Jordan White: So if you start to follow this algorithmic [00:39:00]approach, all of your patients walking out are gonna start looking the same, right? And we’ve seen that. We’ve seen people that all have these overdone cheeks.

They have… Their lips are blown out, and you can’t tr- you need to treat every patient individually. That’s another really important part. But understanding the why behind what we’re doing, understanding the how, you know, how is this working? 

[00:39:18] Alex Bélisle-Springer: Yeah. 

[00:39:18] Jordan White: When we inject Radiesse, how is it actually stimulating collagen?

What types of collagen is it stimulating? How do I manage a complication in the event that I have one? Because it’s not a matter of if, it’s a matter of when. So it all comes down to treating the patient as a patient and a human and then really just knowing your stuff. I mean, y- if you’re injecting a patient, if you are taking care of a patient, it is our, we…

It’s our duty to understand what we’re doing, how we’re doing it, and how to correct something when it goes wrong 

[00:39:48] Alex Bélisle-Springer: Again, there, there’s just such a clear thread in everything you’ve shared today. Um, you know, staying educated, zooming out, always bringing it back to what’s best for the patient. Um, speaking of zooming out, I guess, like, as [00:40:00] I slowly bring us to a close, medical aesthetics is growing quickly.

I think I’ve… You know, I mentioned that earlier. I think we’re all well aware of that, and with that comes a lot of opportunity, but it also comes with a lot of responsibility. And, um, at Phorest, we often talk about building a stronger, more resilient industry together. I’m curious what that might look like from your perspective.

Like, beyond the day-to-day work, what keeps you invested in this industry and its future? 

[00:40:25] Jordan White: I think the two biggest things, um, definitely the people is number one. Um, you know, that’s the one thing I will say that I did not like about flight nursing, that I did not like about critical care, and it actually always bothered me, is that, you know, I could, I could scoop up a patient, I could perform life-saving, uh, treatments and truly save their life, drop ’em off at the hospital, and never see or hear about them again.

Um- Mm … in fact, I was the guy that would actually call the ICU a day or two later and try to follow up and say, “Hey, how’s this patient doing? I was the flight crew that brought him in.” 

[00:40:56] Alex Bélisle-Springer: Yeah. 

[00:40:56] Jordan White: And even though legally I have that right, ’cause I was involved with their [00:41:00] care, many nurses in the hospital, they weren’t…

You know, they claimed HIPAA, and they’re like, “Sorry, we can’t talk to you.” Maybe it’s, you know, they’re trusting I’m saying who I’m, I am, and they wanna be safe. I get it. But that really bothered me. You know, I would stay up- Mm … at night thinking about, like- Mm … “Oh, my gosh, I wonder how that patient did. Did they survive?

Like, what’s the… What, what happened?” 

[00:41:18] Alex Bélisle-Springer: Oh, my God. One of my good friends is an EMT, and he says the same thing to me all the time. 

[00:41:23] Jordan White: Yes. It really messes with you mentally, um, because you’re just left with a lot of, like, what happened, what ifs. Mm-hmm. Um, and so for this, I, I, I call it happy medicine, you know?

People are generally paying to come see me. I get to know them. I get to… And, and that’s one thing I try to do before I ever even get into the clinical side of things, is I wanna get to know them as a person. Um, not only- Yeah … them. I wanna know about their family, their kids, their pets. What do they do for fun?

Do they have… Like, where do they travel to? Um, you know, I see patients, and we talk about… You know, they come in, they’re getting their tox, they’re getting some filler, they’re getting a laser ’cause they’re, uh… I have one sweet patient in her 80s. [00:42:00] Like, you know, just the other day she came in, and she’s like, “I’m going to a family, uh, reunion, and I just wanna look my best.”

And she- com- commented on how when she first came to see me five years ago, she was doing the same thing, and it was the best she ever felt, and she got all these compliments. And to hear that and know that I was able to make that impact and that difference in her, in her confidence, that’s huge. You know, that’s, that is my- Mm-hmm

driving force behind what I do. Um, and just the change and impact I can have. Early on, we call it, um, Superman syndrome or superhero syndrome. I actually really struggled, um, coming into this industry because I was like, “What am I doing?” You know? I would have patients who would come in, and they would gripe about, you know, “Oh, you did all of my Botox, but I still have this little wrinkle above my eyebrow.”

And in my heart and in my mind, I would almost get angry and bitter because I’m like, “Are you kidding me?” Like, last year I was scooping people up off the road that were just thankful- Yeah … to be alive. Am I actually making a difference? Like, maybe I need to go back into flight medicine and, and [00:43:00] make…where I’m truly making an impact. And it took several years to see it all play out, but y- we make way more of an impact than we ever would imagine. Um, I had a patient yesterday that came in for a follow-up. She had been seeing our… Katie, our provider, um, for w- wellness, uh, functional med stuff, doing weight loss, um, dietary coaching, nutrition coaching.

She just started doing tox with me, like, last year, and, you know, it’s that- Hmm … that gateway drug. So it starts with a little tox, and before you know it, we’re doing full face tox. We’re doing a little filler, giving her some contour. She broke down and got teary-eyed yesterday when I walked in and said, “Oh my gosh, you look amazing.

Like, you’ve lost so much weight. Your face looks so good.” Her… She’s like, “Jordan, I’ve never felt this comfortable in my own skin.” She’s like, “I have not dated in years.” She’s like, “I literally just started dating apps for the first time last week. I feel comfortable to do that.” She’s like, “My confidence is exuberating into my workspace.

Like, my employ- or my staff and [00:44:00] my, uh, supervisors are noticing that I just come in happier.” Uh, they’re getting… She’s getting compliments in the public, and she just put an offer down for her first house, and it… she’s contributing it all- 

[00:44:10] Alex Bélisle-Springer: Wow … 

[00:44:11] Jordan White: to how she feels in her own skin. So many times I don’t think we see the impact we’re making, and so it’s so appreciated when they tell us.

Um, but- 

[00:44:21] Alex Bélisle-Springer: Hmm … 

[00:44:21] Jordan White: definitely the patients and just the impacts we make, it keeps you going, ’cause it’s a hard industry. It is so hard. It’s brutal. We are great at showing the highlight reel of our lives and being an injector. You know, people think, oh, you’re making loads of money. You’re just… You know, people are decked out in Louis Vuitton, and you’re going to all these conferences.

It’s like those are the highlights, and then the other 90% of the time, you know, it’s me crying in the bathtub with a bottle of wine. You know? Like, how am I gonna get- So, um, it’s, it’s not for the faint of heart, and so it’s really nice to see the difference we make, for sure. 

[00:44:55] Alex Bélisle-Springer: Yeah. It’s very, very special.

For sure. It’s, uh, it’s not like many [00:45:00] industries, if any at all, other than this one. Yeah. 

[00:45:03] Jordan White: Yeah. 

[00:45:04] Alex Bélisle-Springer: Jordan, this has been absolutely fantastic. Time has flown by. Um- Yeah. I- I’m so cur- Like, I mean, I- I feel like there’s- there’s loads that we can unpack. You know, we could keep talking much longer. Yeah. Um, but if people wanna reach out and find you online, connect, where and how can they do that?

[00:45:21] Jordan White: Yeah, I mean, so Instagram is definitely the easiest way to connect. It’s themirsinjector, so mirs with an M instead of an N, so a spinoff of male nurse. Um, and then of course, email. W- Our website, there’s a contact us page. You could submit there. Um, you know, for providers, for training inquiries, things like that, you can actually submit a training request.

Um, my team’s very quick to respond to those. Typically in 24 to 48 hours, you’ll have a response with all the offerings. Um- Amazing … I don’t do like a, you know, a standard, “I’m just gonna come train on this.” For me, it’s like you’re- you’re basically just paying for the time, and then you… it’s your time. So [00:46:00] whether it’s…

I have people that would say, “Hey, for the first two hours, I wanna go over this technique. The next two hours, I want you to touch on this laser, and then the rest of the day, I want you to come in and do some business coaching and consulting and just look at how we do things.” And- and I really love doing that.

It’s so fun to meet providers, so feel free to reach out online, uh, if you want training, or my email is online as well, but it’s just jordan@urbanmedical.com. 

[00:46:22] Alex Bélisle-Springer: Well, Jordan, thank you so much for being so generous with your time and your perspective. I’ve really appreciated getting to- to hear more about your journey, your approach to patient care, the work you do, and, uh, and I appreciate you sharing all of that with our listeners too.

[00:46:35] Jordan White: Yeah. No, thanks for having me. I really appreciate it.

[00:46:40] Alex Bélisle-Springer: I’m so curious to find out what about this episode will resonate the most with you. But before I sign us off, a few quick reminders. Phorest is more than just a technology company. More than software, we’re on a mission together with our community to build a stronger industry. If you’d like to contribute to an upcoming episode of the PhorestFM [00:47:00]podcast and join us on this mission, make sure you subscribe or follow the show to stay informed, because we’ve got a couple upcoming episodes that will tap into the realm of case studies and calls for submissions will be posted soon.

We’ll also be releasing an episode tracing back the history of the Phorest Summit, and we’ll be bringing back the concept of a season finale entirely reliant on submissions from the community. But if the idea of contributing to an episode is not your jam, rating and reviewing the show on Apple Podcasts is the next best way you can support the show.

We’re currently at a little over a hundred ratings and fifty reviews on Apple Podcasts with an ambitious goal of getting the reviews number up to three hundred and fifty. You can also leave a comment on or about the episode you listen to, whether that’s, you know, through your review or through a post on social media tagging us.

Every bit of engagement helps the show reach more folks in the industry. And if we’re going to build a stronger industry together with our community, then that means inviting as many voices as possible [00:48:00] into the conversations we have. An immense thank you for spending the past hour or so here with us.

And on that note, Ɣ le chèile, ta amach, faigh fás. Together, we grow.

Phorest FM podcast is brought to you by Phorest Software. More than software, we’re on a mission, together with our community, to build a stronger industry. 

[00:48:23] Alex Bélisle-Springer: This episode was edited and mixed by Audio Z, Montreal’s cutting-edge post-production studio for creative minds looking to have their vision professionally produced and mixed.

Great music makes great moments.