Phorest FM Episode 333: What’s Next: A Dialogue on Facing Industry Shifts and Opportunities in the UK & Irish Markets

Episode Transcript

[00:00:00] Caroline Hirons: Community is so important in our industry because that’s how you get word of mouth, right? It’s customers. Getting people together in real time is incredibly important. 

Phorest Summit 2026 attendee: What I love about what Phorest does is it’s always thinking about how to make my business better.

Heather Bagby: We need to make sure ourselves and our teams are focusing on the things that we can control. And if we can control being consistent and authentic, then the results will come. 

Caroline Hirons: Community’s everything. I mean, it’s how you grow, it’s how you connect, but it’s also how you understand what the future is bringing

The world is uncertain, but your skillset and your expertise are not. You’re the experts. Go own it

PhorestFM Intro S10: We have an obligation to the industry we serve that we serve it in the right manner Being a business owner A for the week The expectations are just different It’s always going to wait When you’re born into something this special, you can’t help but fight for 

Alex Bélisle-Springer: it Céad míle fáilte. One hundred thousand welcomes to the PhorestFM podcast, brought to you by Phorest Software. I’m your resident host, Alex Villaspiraga. This industry we love and are a part of has always been a pillar of local communities, jobs, apprenticeships, vital self-care, vibrant high streets, and fundamentally, that still rings true.

But in the UK and Ireland, there’s been growing trouble beneath the surface. “Signs of strain have been eroding confidence and consuming headspace,” wrote Sarah Russell, Head of Marketing for the UK and Ireland at Phorest, in a blog published earlier this year. In 2025, UK and Irish reports published within the industry increasingly spoke of the crippling conditions closing in on hairdressers, barbers, and beauty professionals across their respective sectors or markets.

What Sarah put words to was this: The strain isn’t coming from a lack of clients, but rather from things like retention feeling harder to maintain, motivation taking more effort, [00:02:00] commercial leakage, diary fragility, financial uncertainty. None of it is catastrophic in isolation. But stack any one of those challenges against a difficult economic climate and ever-changing regulation, and when you ask owners for their reaction to the UK’s 2025 budget, you get answers wrapped in a coat of heaviness 

Sara Shoemark: It’s tough. It’s going to be really, really hard.

Sammy MacDonald: I think this is one that’s hanging over a lot of people’s heads. Are any of our industries going to teach the next generation the skills and the knowledge that we have, or are they just going to be going to a course and be expected to know everything straight away? I don’t really know where that’s going, and that is a little bit scary.

I would just love to see the industry invested in a little bit more. I think we’re seen sometimes as, “Oh, you just do hair,” or, “You just do nails,” or, “You just do beauty.” We make people feel good every day 

Andrew Vorobjovas: You know, it’s really hard at the moment. I think the situation for businesses like myself is very unfavorable in the UK.

We are facing more and more challenges. It’s, it’s… You gotta put a lot of business out of, out of business. 

Alex Bélisle-Springer: Contextually speaking, the video series for which we captured the clips you just heard, featuring Sarah Shumark, Sammy McDonald, and Andrew Vorobjovas back in January 2025, wasn’t only about getting an insider’s look at external pressures they might have been facing.

The four-part video series, Lessons from the Salon Floor, filmed at the Phorest Summit 2025’s UK Welcome event, had been made to inspire, empower, and entertain with lighthearted moments sprinkled throughout, and it did. But that single question about the 2025 UK budget uncovered something both shared and deeply charged, an undercurrent of grief.

You can hear it in the tone, the choice of words, the deep, deep sighs, the [00:04:00] frustration, and the worry. Sarah Shumark is the owner of Glow Beauty with four locations. Sammy McDonald, the owner of Heritage Salons, three locations, and Andrew Vorobjovas is the founder and co-owner of Silver Clip, one location. In 2026, the numbers back up many of the fears they’d shared.

The British Beauty Council’s Value of Beauty 2026 report, compiled by Oxford Economics, found the industry contributed twenty-eight point three billion pounds to the UK economy in 2025, but employment across the sector fell as businesses faced continued economic pressures. The total employment supported by the industry fell by two point eight percent in 2025, with direct employment down two point one percent compared with 2024.

The report attributed the pressure on businesses to rising wage costs, national insurance contributions, business rates, and utility bills. Which begs the question, what’s next? [00:05:00] And in order to shape what’s next, we must first sit with what was and what is, the essential groundwork upon which this entire episode is built.

In late January of this year, as six hundred plus people gathered again for the Phorest Summit, we decided to begin production of this episode. We sat down with four advocates and champions of the industry, people who sit at the intersection of owners, practitioners, brands, experts, and regulators to help us dig into what this taking stock moment really means.

To be absolutely clear from the jump, this episode isn’t about wallowing in a woe is us narrative or dwelling on negativity. It’s a chance to reflect on where the UK and Irish industries actually stand now as we cross the threshold of mid-2026. An opportunity to dig into the individual and collective roles we play in navigating this transition, nurturing the culture, and defining what sustainable growth looks like next.

After all, transformation is a word everyone in hair, beauty, and medical aesthetics knows well. These industries [00:06:00] were built on it. Joining us today for this exploratory conversation, Sophia Fay Roche, journalist at Aesthetics Journal, Nikki Pope, publisher of Tribute Magazine and chair of the Hair Committee at the British Beauty Council, Ellen Cummings, deputy editor at Professional Beauty Group, and Jennifer Paxton, editor-in-chief of Barber Evo and Salon Evo

Despite optimism within the small business community and the Value of Beauty twenty twenty-six report’s forecasts for growth, a large proportion of beauty and wellness businesses earlier this year said recent fiscal measures had not materially eased cost pressures, and many expected to adjust pricing or tighten margins as a result.

Across the UK, professionals are still navigating rising financial pressures, cultural shifts, and emerging regulations. For many Irish owners, running a business today means adapting to rising operating costs, growing payroll expenses, and ongoing regulatory change. This was echoed by Sophia Fayroche, [00:07:00] journalist at Aesthetics Magazine, a specialist publication offering depth and professionalism with a focus on advanced treatments, regulatory developments, industry news, and operational best practices for clinics, practitioners, and professionals in the medical aesthetics and beauty sector.

Sophia-Fai Roche: You know, I think with developments in AI plus ongoing conversations around regulation, especially within aesthetics, there’s a lot of change that’s coming. Um, but the real question is what does that change actually look like? Um, so like for example, with AI, I think some people are a little bit apprehensive, um, from, but what I have seen this weekend, um, many are open to seeing, um, what this means and how it can actually help teams run clinics, um, instead of actually replacing them, which I think is something that people are concerned about.

Um, but I don’t think it’s something that we should really worry about too much, especially from what I’ve seen this weekend. I don’t think that’s a concern I really have anymore. 

Alex Bélisle-Springer: Of course, we can’t talk about changes within the industry without talking about the accelerating rise of [00:08:00] AI, though it has and will certainly continue to be met by some with layers of doubt, caution, and or worry.

But as Sophia explains, we are seeing it imbue a sense of possibility too, and early adopters are already leveraging the technology to streamline the administrative burden of backend operations. 

Sophia-Fai Roche: I think that’s something patients are really gonna, um, get a lot of benefit from. And that in and of itself, I think is a major plus.

So I think it’s not to be feared. I think it is to be welcomed, but I think maybe we still just have to make sure we’ve got that human touch. But I think that’s something that Phorest definitely have in mind. 

Alex Bélisle-Springer: Thoughtfully adopted, can AI heighten clinical excellence and foster deeper patient connections through highly tailored care journeys?

I imagine we’ll see the answer to this unfold over time, but the growing presence of AI in the grand scheme of things represents only one of the many facets in the broader landscape of change the hair, beauty, and aesthetics sectors are [00:09:00] navigating. One of the biggest shifts happening at the moment, particularly in the UK and especially around aesthetic medicine, is the implementation of new legislation.

In England, Section 180 of the Health and Care Act 2022 set the groundwork for the government to introduce new standards for non-surgical cosmetic procedures. In August 2025, it published a range of proposals aimed at improving industry standards, increasing transparency within the sector, and most importantly, offering greater protection to patients.

Sophia-Fai Roche: Last summer, um, the government confirmed plans in the UK, um, to introduce a national licensing scheme for non-surgical procedures, which was widely welcomed by, um, the sector that I work in. However, when we spoke with doctors, some noted that they felt that the update, um, didn’t really contain anything they didn’t already know, and the feedback released was 18 months overdue.

Um, and they were also proposing another consultation to take place in six months’ time, which is about now. So from the top down, from the government down to [00:10:00] the ground, I think what I’ve observed is that some people feel like they want more clarity. However, at events and in between colleagues, um, the conversations are not being avoided at all, from my experience.

I’ve seen people actively, um, pushing for these conversations because they want to know what is gonna happen, what this scheme will involve, what will it look like, when will it be implemented, um, and what action will be taken against those who are caught ignoring it. Um, so for the sake of patient safety and ensuring that medical aesthetics is seen as just that, being medical, I think members of, um, the aesthetic community are not holding back on those conversations, and they’re actively pushing for them more.

It’s more just waiting on the government to respond and finding out what they have to say about it that is being delayed, some people feel. 

Alex Bélisle-Springer: At the time of this episode being edited, the national licensing scheme still appears to be in a transitional phase. The legislation exists, and many aesthetic practitioners are already preparing for future compliance by upgrading qualifications and strengthening their documentation [00:11:00] practices.

But there are still major questions around implementation, enforcement, and how consistently regulation will roll out across the UK. Naturally, that uncertainty is frustrating for providers. As Sophia Fayros pointed out, the issue isn’t resistance to new legislation. If anything, she argues that stronger regulation and a greater emphasis on patient safety will help the sector mature more responsibly.

What they’re waiting for is clarity on when and how everything will finally fall into place. In the meantime, the industry’s already seen some concerning stories that highlight the urgent need for stronger safeguarding measures. 

Sophia-Fai Roche: As much as I’m super excited to see, um, how AI is gonna come into fruition, we have heard some really concerning stories already about certain things.

So take, for example, ITV recently released an investigation where they found that patients were editing, um, pictures of themselves using AI, um, to make themselves look larger in order to obtain weight loss [00:12:00] injections, um, which is really concerning. So I think to help combat that, it’s just regulation. We need regulation across the board in some sense, you know, making sure that AI is regulated with, you know, okay, so some patients are exploiting it.

How are we gonna safeguard them against that? Um, and then again, with, in terms of the national licensing scheme, once we have a clearer picture of what that’s gonna look like, I think that will help the sector mature as well because people will know where they’re standing. Um, and also the whole point of it is to make patients feel safer.

And if they feel safe, they’re gonna be more likely to, um, enter the sector and go for treatments. So if we can just really safeguard the patient and ensure that they’re safe, um, and give them that confidence that we’re looking after them, I think that will help the sector mature

Alex Bélisle-Springer: While we await finalized regulations to help define the aesthetic medicine industry, professionals in hair and beauty are also pushing for representation and visibility for their craft. Nikki Pope, [00:13:00] publisher of Tribute Magazine and chair of the Hair Committee at the British Beauty Council, has been closely involved in conversations aimed at raising the industry’s reputation.

Nicky Pope: So the British Beauty Council was founded in twenty eighteen, I believe, and its role is to, to communicate with the government, if you like, in all its forms, and to represent the hair and beauty industry better, to ask for better. Now, hair and beauty is put together. There’s a lot of anxiety in the industry about, you know, why is hair and beauty put together?

You know, why are you doing that? Why, you know, the British Beauty Council lumps hair and beauty together. We don’t. The government does. So there’s been one SIC code to, um, cover the whole industry, which is something that’s actually being addressed, and we are asking for change, and they, they are gonna now define it better, which will help.

Alex Bélisle-Springer: Standard Industrial Classification, or SIC codes, are used to categorize industries based on their economic activity. Historically, hair and beauty and spa were grouped under a single code for other personal services, [00:14:00] alongside industries like dry cleaning and pet grooming. This meant that the sector’s diverse skill sets and contribution to the economy had been significantly underrepresented.

After years of lobbying from the British Beauty Council, new SIC codes introduced in March twenty twenty six now separate hairdressing, beauty, and spa into distinct categories. This is a major step toward more clearly defining the industry through cleaner data and better representation. It also offers stronger opportunities for advocacy within government, which Nikki continues to push and support.

Nicky Pope: How do we navigate? Where are we going? Well, the interesting thing about hairdressing is the first thing I tell anybody that I meet who asks what world I, I work in, hairdressing is emotional. It’s creative, but it’s emotional. So it’s very much about people, about the way we feel working within the industry.

It’s about the way hairdressers can make their clients feel. So I think if you hold that at the core of everything, you understand a little bit better what’s happening and why. The [00:15:00] difficulty that the hair and beauty industry has is understanding it’s the process. So yes, policy seems abstract, and it’s difficult to understand what’s going on, but what you have to appreciate is the process.

You have to talk to the government in the way they want to be talked to. So we at the British Beauty Council really want to promote the value of hair and beauty, the value of beauty, the value of hairdressing, and to encourage the government, the minister, to back a winning horse. We’re great. We’re doing really well.

That bit’s not so good. That bit’s very stressful. Could you help us with that bit? But it’s all gonna be really valuable because actually we employ a lot of people and, and, and so on. On the hair committee specifically, I now have a team of committee members that really represent the UK geographically, and we are there to provide anecdotal support.

So when the council goes in to see the minister, um… and for example, ha- even having a minister for personal services is a new thing that the British Beauty Council achieved. So to even have a minister that they can go and see and to say, “This is what we need. [00:16:00] This is why we need it, and let’s give you 10 anecdotal pieces of evidence from somebody in Scotland, somebody in Wales, somebody in the south of England, somebody in the north of England, and yes, somebody in London.”

So it’s, that’s really how we’re trying to influence change, and I think if we could all listen, find ways to communicate, have a conversation, and learn about the process so that you understand these things take time, but they are working. So one of the things I hear a lot is like, “You’re telling the government that we’re doing really well.”

I can assure you, the government knows we are not doing well, particularly in hairdressing, that actually beauty has… there is growth, and there is growth in turnover. The margins are being, um, cut, but we’re leaning into what the government is willing to hear and what they’re willing to do something about.

Alex Bélisle-Springer: Nikki Pope alluded to feelings of frustration in the industry, which Sophia Fayros also hinted at. And in the face of change, it’s not unusual for stress and apprehension to arise. The danger is letting that linger, grow into fear, and getting stuck there. In our [00:17:00] conversation at the summit, Nikki offered an insightful and compelling look into the underlying dynamics behind why, ironically, an industry built upon transformation can be so hesitant to transform itself 

Nicky Pope: What we have is people coming out of school.

They’ve often been told that they’re not good at school, they’re not academic, they haven’t enjoyed school. I firmly believe that there’s a huge proportion of hairdressers and people working in the beauty industry as well who are ADHD, probably dyslexic. Perhaps they haven’t been identified as that.

Perhaps that’s why they didn’t like school. Perhaps that’s why they didn’t find learning a very pleasant experience. But they’ve come out feeling less than. So they’re coming to hairdressing, into beauty, which is a very welcoming world, and they feel like they belong, but they never lose that, that shame or that worry that they are less than.

So you have that as the starting point. It’s always been like that. Um, people then rise through the industry. They learn from each other. They learn by watching. They learn by… You get elevated in your craft by being good at [00:18:00] hairdressing or beauty practices, and you find yourself running a business, and nobody taught you how to run a business.

So really, that is why we are where we are and the world, the economic world, the political world is demanding that people are efficient, that they are nimble, that they adapt to change, and you have a cohort of people who haven’t ever been asked to do that before

Alex Bélisle-Springer: I value Nikki’s insight because I believe that whether individually or collectively, however it is we find ourselves responding, we can view these emerging feelings as a doorway to exploring the deeper desires they’re signaling. For example, fear is often linked to unmet needs for safety, certainty, or stability and autonomy.

Anger might show up when we feel disrespected or treated unjustly. That’s good information, data we can work with. One of my favorite strategists, who’s also a speaker and writer, Mark Pollard, says in his book, Strategy Is Your Words, “Emotions are our school for meaning. They’re our [00:19:00] teachers. While we don’t always know what to do with them and which we are allowed to have, emotions teach us what is meaningful to us.

If you’re sad or angry, why are you sad or angry? When weren’t you sad or angry? When have you felt alive? If you can catch the feelings, you can dig for meaning.” We won’t come to a place of clarity and stability overnight. Meaningful transformation is a gradual process. So as we navigate this period, can we contemplate, perhaps even dream about, how a sense of maturing excellence might shape our businesses and what sustainable growth might look like in and beyond this context?

While in conversation with Ellen Cummings, deputy editor at Professional Beauty, she too agreed that beauty businesses are currently living in a gray area, a space defined by the friction between overarching long-term growth narrative and the day-to-day realities of running a business on the ground in today’s context.

Ellen Cummings: So on the one hand, there’s kind of the headline figures of how much the [00:20:00] industry is contributing to GDP, and there’s still growth in service spend. But on the other hand, you’ve got the day-to-day reality of running a business. So there’s increases in national insurance and staffing challenges and increasing overhead.

So I think businesses are kind of existing in the middle of that. Um, and both things can be true at the same time. You know, things can be growing and you can still be struggling kind of day to day. Um, and I think what happens next will be down to a few things. There’s no one single thing that determines what happens.

Obviously, clients are really important. They play a huge role. Um, what they value, what they’re willing to pay for, what experiences they want. And then also digital platforms have a big influence, whether we want them to or not. They’re informing what our ideas of a success are, um, whether subconsciously or consciously.

And then there’s the industry itself. There’s so many different facets to it. You’ve got brands, you have media, you have events, um, and they all have a role in deciding what we prioritize and what we speak about and what we don’t. So yeah, no single one [00:21:00] group is deciding what matters, but collectively we’re all influencing it, I think.

Alex Bélisle-Springer: Professional Beauty is a cornerstone group for the UK and Irish salon, spa, and aesthetics industries. It publishes several influential magazines, runs major exhibitions, awards, and events, delivering business insights, market trends, and strategic guidance every month 

Ellen Cummings: At our core, we’re there to educate and inform people, and we kind of act as the middleman between the brands, the experts, the practitioners, the regulators, and then we translate into something that’s useful and accessible for our readers and our audience.

Um, we’re also a news outlet, so we’re reporting on what’s changing, whether that’s the regulation or technology or treatments, um, and workforce issues. But beyond that, we have to be kind of discerning as to what we speak about. Not everything that’s loud is important, and not everything that’s important is loud, um, especially when it comes to trends.

That’s a big part of what we do. So a trend doesn’t [00:22:00] necessarily mean it’s something brand new. It could be something that’s been around for a while. Um, and it’s our job to decide why it is trending now and if that’s important to our readers, what it actually means for businesses, um, and to help them understand how they can implement that or if they even need to.

Um, and I think that’s why a lot of smart businesses say they don’t chase trends, they chase results. Um, a lot of people in the industry hate the word trends. You ask them what’s trending, they’re like, “I don’t care. It’s not about the trends. It’s about the realities and what works for my clients. It’s not, you know, what’s big on social media.”

Alex Bélisle-Springer: Something Jennifer Paxton, editor-in-chief at Evo Media Group, also echoed. 

Jennifer Paxton: I think the people who I see have the most success and the most sustainable businesses are the ones who look at their clientele, their community, and think about what works for them. You know, what their town is like, [00:23:00] what their, what their clients need, listening to what their clients need and doing things purposefully and, you know, slowly and not just jump reacting to every trend.

Because I think you can make any of those systems work. If you wanna just do balayages and that’s all you do, you can nail that and that can be your niche. But if you do that and then the next year you decide that you’re gonna have a, you know, salon that does every service under the sun and you also do na- nails and massage and tanning and all of that, and then y- the next week you’re, you’re switching to something else, I think those are the ones that you see so much turbulence in.

So the salons and barbershops who I’ve seen, um, have the most success are the ones that, you know, they’re not afraid of change. They’re not afraid of evolution. They’re watching what’s going on in the bigger picture, but they’re still having those conversations with their [00:24:00] clients and their community and slowly evolving rather than these, like, rapid whiplash reactions.

Alex Bélisle-Springer: Ambition is fundamental to entrepreneurship. It’s to be expected that business owners would consistently seek to build and grow. You probably wouldn’t be in business for long if you didn’t care about that. My curiosity led me to ask Jennifer and Ellen for their thoughts on whether we’ve become perhaps stuck in a narrow definition of growth and success, and if there’s a point where growth stops feeling healthy, where it starts costing us more than what it gives back.

The question here was, and allow me to ask it to you listening as well, is all growth good growth? Or something we’ve even asked ourselves in the context of producing this very podcast, what do growth and success look like if the answer couldn’t be in the realm of more? 

Jennifer Paxton: You know, I was thinking about it in terms of the industry as well as in terms [00:25:00] of our company and, and, you know, our publications and things.

And I think, um, Mary, my colleague and I were having this conversation about, you know, the skyscraper analogy. If you just keep looking up and you keep building and building and building, but you don’t take that time to look at your foundation and look, you know, at the structures you have beneath, you’re gonna topple over.

Um, and I think about that in, in so many different contexts of, you know, our business. It’s taking those moments, you know, every couple months to go back and saying, “Are we doing all the things that we’re already doing? Are we doing it right? Are we taking the time? Are we doing th- to the best of our ability?”

Because if we add on a whole new project and, you know, keep saying yes to everything, but we’re not setting those foundations properly, you know, we’ll just implode. And it’s the same with salons. If you keep building and you, you know, keep- Adding … adding new branches or adding new stylists or new barbers, but you haven’t [00:26:00] taken that time to work on those foundations and your customer service and you’re, you know, getting the, the client experience down right, then when you grow you’re not gonna have that consistency and you’re not gonna have those tying threads that make your clientele love you and trust you and come back to you.

Ellen Cummings: I think one of the main things is that everything’s, it’s not as clear-cut as it seems. I think businesses feel a lot of pressure to project confidence and that they’re doing well and there’s momentum, but privately there’s a m- more nuance to the conversation. I think there’s a lot of taboo about talking openly about when you’re struggling in a professional capacity.

I know, I think, I hope we’re getting better at kind of talking about that stuff in a personal way so, you know, whether that’s our mental health or relationships. I think privately we can speak about that with a bit more confidence, but I think that people see a degree of failure in talking about if your business is struggling, and I think that’s a massive shame.

Um, because whenever I’ve heard salon owners talking about it with each [00:27:00] other, they’re always so genuinely willing to help each other. And I think, you know, if you did have a conversation with someone, they might say something that would help you or spark an idea that you hadn’t thought of. So yeah, there’s definitely an undercurrent of maybe being a bit more open, I think, in the industry 

Alex Bélisle-Springer: A time like this when everything feels a bit up in the air can actually be the perfect chance to rethink how we do things.

If we really lean into it, this can be the moment to define what’s next, building a future that balances our big ambitions with the real world stuff we’re all dealing with right now, but also the practical realities of a world in constant evolution. And being at industry events with salon owners, aesthetic practitioners, and beauty professionals, you feel that openness, that real sense of community, especially at events intentionally designed with this in mind.

Ellen Cummings: We always say community over competition, especially like salon owners, but even me as a journalist, there’s loads of other magazines who are, were [00:28:00] technically our rivals. But at the end of the day, it’s not that deep. Like, we’re all trying to do the same thing, and we can all learn from each other and help each other and yeah, it’s not, it’s not a competition.

We’re all in our own lane doing our own thing and doing it well. 

Alex Bélisle-Springer: Perhaps this is one of the many reasons why in-person events are regaining this much popularity. Online, where we’re sold comparisons, highlight reels, and oversimplified versions of success, feelings of isolation and failure can grow. 

Ellen Cummings: I do definitely think it creates a lot of anxiety, and when those success stories are oversimplified, whether it’s massive growth or high turnover, it can make other businesses who are very solid, really well run and feel like they’re falling behind, and they’re not.

It’s just people are kind of shouting about stuff, but not necessarily going into the bigger picture. And I think that means some business owners are questioning themselves more than they need to, or they’re reacting to whatever they think they’re seeing [00:29:00] that’s making this other business successful. So they’re doing something that, you know, maybe adding a treatment or opening a new location or changing direction that they don’t need to.

But, you know, if you’re doing something like that, it needs to be because it genuinely makes sense for your business and for your clients and for you, not just because you’re seeing someone else doing that. And then on the misinformation side, especially in skincare and aesthetics, that’s a massive thing.

There’s a really big knock-on effect on client expectations. So clients are more informed than ever, but they’re also more misinformed than ever because they’re getting their information from all over the place. So that does put practitioners in a really difficult position because they spend a lot of time correcting people, educating them, myth busting, and having to push back a lot of the time saying, “You know, no, you don’t need this treatment,” or, “Maybe you should try something else instead.”

And that’s not always acknowledged in the wider conversation, I don’t think It always comes down to education, and we can’t influence what clients are seeing and, you know, what they choose to [00:30:00] believe. But if we’re shouting about it, whether that’s us as the trade media or if it’s a therapist or a stylist, they have their own platforms.

And people, we are genuinely, I think, moving away from influence now. People want to learn from authentic people who are educated or trained or regulated. They trust them more than people on the internet, and I think we are heading in the right direction. It will take some time because it’s kind of been ingrained, and people like to think that they know better, and they don’t.

But I think people are starting to trust more in the professional side, as they should do. 

Alex Bélisle-Springer: Jennifer Paxton articulates a similar sentiment. I 

Jennifer Paxton: think once we know more about the people behind the brands and the people behind businesses, then we see each other more as human and we, I don’t know, I think we, we just become a more accepting and

Place for more evolution I don’t know [00:31:00] if I’m phrasing that well, but like when we’re not competing and we’re not just trying to be in our own little bubbles and we come together and see where everybody’s different strengths lies, we can grow so much stronger and with better foundations, if that makes sense.

Alex Bélisle-Springer: This collaboration, the idea that we’re stronger together, has already been playing out across the industry for some time, sector by sector, bit by bit. Which brings me to a part of my conversation with Jennifer that I found particularly interesting because of the unique vantage point she holds when speaking about it.

Jennifer Paxton: I think one of the things that most people don’t know about me anyway is that my brother is a barber and has been for kind of since, like, the resurgence of barbering really hit in the 2010s. So he really came into that industry, and it was– I was watching that happen, um, and was just so intrigued and just spent a lot of time in the barbershop with him when I was, you know, going through [00:32:00] university and stuff.

So I, like, have a love for the industry from that perspective, and it’s really nice to see it, um, you know, from– through his eyes as well as all the people who I now get to interview and work with in my role. Um, I think the other thing that Barber and Salon Evo bring as well to this kind of field is we’re a pretty young company.

Um, we’re only been hitting for Barber Evo about ten years, I think, this year, and then, you know, Salon Evo followed shortly behind. Um, I joined five years ago. 

Alex Bélisle-Springer: So benefiting from not only the interesting lens for exploring cross-market trends that working for Evo Group provides, Evo publishes trade magazines like Salon and Barber Evo UK and its US counterpart.

Jennifer Paxton has also witnessed from up close the barbering industry learning from other sectors and evolving into what it has become today. Her observations, which I’ve seen many more people in the industry start [00:33:00]talking about as well, point to sectors over time becoming less siloed, borrowing ideas, and learning from one another.

Jennifer Paxton: Hairdressing, I think, is kind of famously great at evolving and predicting trends and, you know, adding new services and, okay, hair extensions are a thing now. Let’s bring this into the salon. Okay, you know, keratin treatments, that’s a thing. Let’s do this. Let’s learn about it. Um, and so they’ve been kind of setting the tone of how to expand and evolve based on these trends.

Then you look at beauty, which is so rapidly, you know, changing and expanding, and I think the key in the beauty and skincare industry is being critical and purposeful and educated when it comes to growth and, and, and expanding because there are new services coming out literally every day and new trends and new types [00:34:00] of facials and what-whatever.

Um, they really set the tone in terms of education and, and being purposeful and, and thoughtful there. And then you have barbering, and to me, it’s one of the most interest-interesting elements of the industry because it’s something that for a really long time stayed quite similar. You know, up until maybe about 10, 15 years ago, you had your barber shops.

They’d been around forever. Um, people would come in, short back and sides. You’d get your hair cut. You’re in and out. It’s the same barber your dad went to, you go to, your kid goes to. And then in about, yeah, 2010, I feel like it was the time of, like, Peaky Blinders, you know, came out, and it was like, okay, barber shops are these cool places.

You know, they are, they are the place where you go, and, and then it started getting really trendy, and barber shops started, you know, evolving and expanding and becoming these really high-end places, and then all of a sudden, a haircut went from [00:35:00] $15 to 30 or to 50 to 100, and, and you have You know, this whole new culture and then since then, I think that trend is, has left a little bit, um, but barbers are starting to get a lot savvier and a lot more hungry for more to add to their barber shops.

And so they are, you know, looking into color services or, you know, skincare or waxing and all of these little things. So I think there is that hunger to evolve. I think there’s still a little bit of hesitation in a lot of places, but I think they’re starting to look at, you know, what’s happening more in the salon world and adding that in.

And there’s also been a lot more crossover between, you know, it’s a lot less gendered now as well. So there’s a lot more gender neutral hair spaces. So, um, I think as time is going on, each of these sections of the [00:36:00] industry are learning a lot more from each other, and I think that’s beautiful, and that’s what I wanna see more of.

Because when we listen to each other, then we can grow and, you know, barbers can look at what hairdressers are doing or what beauty professionals are doing and, and vice versa. But then also hairdressers should be looking at barbers and going, “They’re catching up. They’re, they’re adding, you know, color and, and beard services and skin services to their businesses.

So how do we make sure that we stay just as relevant and keep, keep evolving?” So yeah, it’s really nice to see, and I- I’m just a big advocate of everybody constantly upskilling and, and e- elevating their businesses. Um, and I think Phorest is as well, and I think that’s, you know, if we can all just build each other up, that’s the best thing to see.

Alex Bélisle-Springer: Again, this comes back to clarifying our changing definition of growth, which Ellen Cummings and Jennifer Paxton both highlighted as an important part of the broader context and conversation 

Ellen Cummings: I think growth is becoming more [00:37:00] about depth than it is about scale, so better client relationships rather than more, stronger teams rather than bigger teams, and better treatment outcomes.

So even if I know businesses still have to think operationally and make sure that it’s all working on that side of things, but I think there is a shift in how success is being looked at, and longevity has been a massive thing in the last few years in terms of kind of health and well-being, but it translates into business as well, and I think it feeds into that deeper view of growth being something deeper rather than bigger, and I think that’s quite a healthy way to look at things.

I think in reality, leadership is something that can be quite lonely and isolating. Um, for sustainability especially, it’s kind of discussed in abstract terms, but it really comes down to, is my business burning me out? Is it burning my team out? Can I keep it running? That is what sustainability means. Can I keep this going?

And things like financial stability and staff retention matter way more than buzzwords [00:38:00] like, you know, big leadership or whatever. But I think success is also something that tends to be quieter in real life. It’s not about, you know, if you’ve gone viral or if you’ve been featured in a big glossy magazine.

It’s about, are your staff happy? Are your clients happy? Are you confident in the work that you’re providing? I think that is what success is. It’s not this big glamorous thing necessarily 

Jennifer Paxton: I think in times of uncertainty comes great, you know, chances to reflect and pivot and change and, um, you know, get comfortable, as you said, with the uncomfortable.

So to me, I think it’s a really exciting time. Um, I do really see that value in the whole point of bringing it back to the human. So using these features that Phorest offers or using AI to give you more time to be that human and have those human interactions. So going back to those [00:39:00] foundations of, you know, what is our…

What does our client experience look like? What does our consultation look like? What does the shampoo, you know, experience feel like? Are we, are we remembering these facts about our clients and, and asking about their kids and how they’re doing? And so Phorest is giving those tools, you know, through AI to be more human and have more brain space for all of those little things, and I think that’s so important to, you know, really take a look at your foundations and make sure that they are spot on so that you can then grow.

Yeah. Because you, you just can’t if you don’t have that. So I think it’s just about embracing the moment that we’re in, embracing the change, and instead of, you know, as you say, being afraid of what this future is, you know, being excited about it and taking the next generation of stylists and taking them under our wings and letting that, I don’t know, evolve and be a positive about it [00:40:00]

Alex Bélisle-Springer: Sophia Feroche gave us a specific example of what a new standard of care and collaboration across sectors could look like in practice, and how it would benefit both business reputation and client-patient trust and experience.

At the end of the day, client expectations have evolved, not just because of age or demographics, but because seamless and connected experiences have become the norm too. And as they continue to change, because let’s be honest, they will, AI ethicist and cultural futurist Dr. Lolly Mansy, who spoke at the Phorest Summit 2026, drove this point home by noting that research even points to the rise of the phygital experience.

This model combines physical expertise with digital intelligence to create a client journey that is personalized and intuitive at every step. Something that, of course, partners like Phorest can help support. 

Sophia-Fai Roche: So I come from an aesthetics background, yet speaking to fellow journalists this weekend about the impacts they’re seeing from medications such as GLP-1, it really [00:41:00] highlights that the patient journey is sometimes multifactorial.

And by crafting relationships with the wider sector, you can really go beyond helping the patient with just the original concern they came in. So take GLP-1, also known as like Mounjaro or Ozempic. So we’re really starting to see the effects in aesthetic clinics of these types of medications. And they’re having really big impacts on patients, not just, you know, the initial concern that they came in with, but also creating other things that they then want to solve.

So, for example, some patients will go on this medication and then some may experience hair loss. So that’s then a new problem that’s come from the original reason why they sort of came in. But if you then have the right relationships within the wider sector, you can then help that patient on their patient journey for longer.

So GLP-1, they come into clinic, uh, they’ve lost the weight that they’re happy with, that’s amazing, but they’ve also noticed hair loss. If you have a person that you have a good relationship with who [00:42:00] works, for example, within hair, and they have, um, experience in, like, hair systems and how to integrate hair systems, you can refer them on, you can refer that patient on, and I think that will really, um, drive home to the patient, um, their support.

So I think by having those connections with the wider community, it not only makes that patient feel more comfortable going to you because it shows that you have their best interests at heart, but it also makes them come back to you because they trust you, and they’ve… you’ve not just helped them with their original concern, but you’ve also referred them on to a specialist who knows more about the next concern that they have.

And I think that’s really important. And when you’re going to events like this and you’re speaking to people in different corners of the industry, um, that’s when you can really start to build those connections. Um, and yeah, this weekend’s been amazing for that, but especially within aesthetics, I think events such as CCR, um, and ACE are really, really vital because you have opportunities to network and mentor people and find out what’s new and, um, build those collaborations, um, [00:43:00] which in return will help the patient, which in return will help your credibility.

Alex Bélisle-Springer: At the Phorest Summit 2025, Dr. Ann Marie Imafidon MBE reminded us how we’re all living in someone else’s vision of the future. It’s easy to feel like we’re just passengers in a design we didn’t draw, but we don’t have to wait it out and see who comes out the other side unscathed. And exercises like this, of imagining what could be, is key.

Something we can all lean into more 

Jennifer Paxton: Hair and beauty and barbering is always something that people are needing. Um, I was talking to a business owner the other day, um, it’s a couple who own a really now very successful business in America, and the husband was an entrepreneur, had other businesses going on while his wife was kind of starting the salon.

And during the 2008 recession, he felt his other business drop 75%. Like, [00:44:00] it really crashed, as so much of America’s economy did. The salon dropped 15%, like, a dip, a little dip, because people were still needing their hair, people were still coming in. They, you know, maybe they were taking four months or five months in between appointments rather than two or three, but they were still coming in.

They weren’t losing clients. 

Alex Bélisle-Springer: The external pressures the UK and Irish hair, beauty, and aesthetics industries are feeling are real. The tightening economy, new legislation, the rapid acceleration of AI, the ripple effects of it all, it’s all real. But so is our resilience to hardships like COVID, or going back to 2008, the recession.

So what can we learn from those times, and where, here, right now, can we both individually and collectively tap into more of a designer mindset? Because that’s how we shape the future. Not by letting change happen to us, but by consciously designing the infrastructure where our businesses and humanity can thrive.

And [00:45:00] creativity, collaboration, and community have always been crucial to how this industry adapts. 

Nicky Pope: I think it’s brilliant, the loops that we form in hairdressing. So even after 30 years, I’m still meeting new people or re- revisiting friendships, and then also realizing what connections other people have.

So it’s just like you never know who knows somebody, and suddenly you find something that you have in common. 

Alex Bélisle-Springer: That loop Nikki Pope describes brings another broader and different layer to this here that we didn’t even get to explore but could warrant an entire episode on its own. And that is that regardless of the sector, we also carry a collective responsibility to consider how our response to these shifts ultimately shapes the experience for the next generation of professionals looking to make their dream a reality they live and breathe.

And perhaps part of it starts with being honest with ourselves and with them. 

Caroline Hirons: Well, I think that there are two… We have the issue of people not coming into the industry in the traditional way because they think they don’t need to. So you have the whole TikTok, the whole I [00:46:00] can do it, the influencer story.

You’ve then got people who would perhaps have wanted to come into hair and beauty, but it’s not looking so good. So, you know, their parents don’t really want them to. They can’t tell you how much they’re gonna earn. It just doesn’t look like a very secure option. So I think we need to be aware of that and to, much as we all love these ind- our industry, we need to make sure that we project that.

Be realistic. I think that if we look at our own practices on a regional level, local stroke regional, then the national and international will take care of itself. So I think we want to say to young people, it is a good industry. There are lots of options. You know, come in with your eyes open.

I think if we put messaging out there about how great it is to join a salon, how it’s really good to be employed for a while. So positive messages that reinforce what we want and, yeah, just be very aware of who you’re speaking to. But, you know, I think there is a great future and I think the more I travel around, the more I speak to people, the more I come back going, “Hmm, do you know what?

It’s [00:47:00] maybe not that bad.” I don’t wanna be Pollyanna. I don’t wanna be, you know, Anne of Green Gables. It’s not all gonna be great. We have to address lots of things, but there is a lot of joy there to be had. So let’s hold onto that. Let’s amplify that more. Let’s be realistic and look to get your own house in order, get your own locality, talk to your regional connections.

Let’s make communities and then those communities will join up and we will safeguard our international community

Alex Bélisle-Springer: One thing I know to be true is we always have a choice, to exist in other people’s vision or to come alive and shape what’s next, whether that’s through mentorship, joining movements like the Save Our Salons one, regulatory advocacy, or simply refining the foundational experience inside your business. So what perspective will you bring?

What role will you play in what’s to come from all of this? Nikki Pope, Ellen Cummings, Jennifer Paxton, and Sophia Fay Roche are working hard within their respective media so you don’t have to build that [00:48:00] future in isolation. The PhorestFM podcast serves the same ambition. 

Ellen Cummings: The industry’s full of entrepreneurs.

It’s got amazing therapists, amazing stylists doing amazing work, and we really, really want to shout about that. That’s the core of what we do. That’s the heart of it. Um, and we really want people to get the recognition that they deserve, and that’s why we do things like the British Hairdressing Awards and the Professional Beauty Awards to celebrate people’s skill and innovation and expertise and give people the recognition they deserve for doing that and not just kind of…

It doesn’t matter if you’ve got loads of followers or if you’ve gone viral. It’s about your expertise, um, and your impact on your clients. 

Jennifer Paxton: I mean, I think I see myself in a similar way as you. I’m… It’s not, you know, I don’t feel like I deserve the center stage. I want to give that platform and share those voices of, you know, the barbers and the stylists and the beauty professionals and give them that platform and that [00:49:00] stage to talk about what matters to them and, and to tell those stories.

Um, I think we get so wrapped up on social media and we think we know, you know, somebody and, uh, know a brand just because of these 15-second videos. And so my favorite thing is to take it back and to actually tell their story and t- tell how they’ve evolved their businesses and how they’ve, you know, gone through all of these things like that business that got through the 2008 recession and now today are still very relevant and current.

So I think for me, it’s just about, you know, telling the stories of the professionals, telling the stories about the brands and, you know, almost being a matchmaker of, of people in the industry to come together and collaborate. 

Alex Bélisle-Springer: And at Phorest, we don’t have a job. We have a purpose. It’s to help salon, spa, and medi-esthetic clinic owners like you succeed.

In CEO Ronan Percival’s own words: 

Ronan Perceval: So I started off in the early 2000s working in a salon as a receptionist in front of house, and that’s how I got into this industry. And some of you who have heard this story will know, um, I was– while I was working there is when I came across the problem of no-shows in salons And we helped to solve that problem or make a difference for the salon owner, Tina, who owned the salon where I was working here in Dublin, by coming up with SMS appointment reminders, which was the first time that was ever done anywhere in the world in a salon.

And so we int- I was able to introduce that with a friend of mine who built that software. And as I was doing the appointments, I was able to get people’s phone numbers and put it into this little piece of software that was gonna send appointment reminders at night. Now, that’s a whole different story in itself, but needless to say, it worked.

Those appointment reminders started going out, and we cut down Tina’s no-shows by about 70%. But that isn’t why [00:51:00] Phorest started. Uh, and that’s what I want to talk to you about because I worked there in the run-up to Chris- um, in 2002, so 20 years- over 20 years ago now, and it was crazy busy. So between sort of like the end of November all the way up to Christmas Eve, we worked our socks off.

And you guys all know this, you guys have all done this. And so in those four to five weeks, the salon was as busy as it had ever been. And then on Christmas Eve, we got to go home, and I got to be able to take about 10 days off. And then when I came back in the beginning of January, which is 20 years ago this week, this is when the idea for Phorest was ignited, and that’s why I wanna talk about this theme, also about why we do the summit now.

So I came back, I walked into the salon, and Tina had her appointment book [00:52:00] ’cause, you know, the crazy thing that we were doing is we were writing the appointments in a book and writing them into a computer as well, and I was the, the front guy, so I had to do that. But we were looking at the book, or she was looking at the book when I walked in after Christmas, and she was flicking through the pages, and she had that– Her eyes basically had a look of fear in them.

And the reason was, as we flicked through the pages, there wasn’t anything in there. There were hardly any appointments there. And I’m sure you guys have all had that feeling at some point in your careers Um, and it was at that point she was like, “What are we gonna do about it?” And it was in that moment, in this week 20 years ago, when we had our first idea which led to Phorest, and that was to collect all those phone numbers we’d be collecting for the appointment reminders, send out a text message promotion that got her business absolutely flying.

And what we did was we worked with… And [00:53:00] for those of you who’ve heard this story before, I’m sorry, but for those that are new, we worked with the brand she was working with who were launching a new product, and we were able to give out a travel size of that product in the promotion that anybody that booked in got a free product if they booked in in January.

And because we were one of the first people ever to send out a promotion like that by text message, people were forwarding it to their friends, and the phone never stopped ringing for three days, and we booked her out solid for January, which is absolutely incredible. But it was while it was happening and the phone was ringing that the hairs went up on the back of my neck, and I realized, yeah, this is something, and I think I’m gonna be doing this for the rest of my life.

And that was 20 years ago today, and that idea then led to us starting Phorest. And the whole idea was to do marketing campaigns to help salons get busy at times when they were quiet. And that’s where the idea formulated from, and that’s where the idea ignited, and that’s why we do the summit this week [00:54:00] in January, and that’s why we’re always gonna do it, I’m sorry to say, this week.

But what I’ve learned over the years is that for all of you guys, it’s when things are hardest, that’s when the best idea comes from. That’s when you really get to learn what you’re made of. Uh, and it was in that moment- 

Alex Bélisle-Springer: It’s when things are the hardest that the best ideas come. The future is what we make happen today.

There’s a lot to address: education, profitability, career perception, security, apprenticeships. The list goes on. But if we look hard enough, there’s also, like everyone has echoed at some point during this episode, not only an incredible amount of joy in this craft, but excitement to be had for what’s to emerge as the next chapter.

And it starts with this. Do we perpetuate a narrative of struggle, or do we create a positive cycle? We’ve always believed business can be a force for good. Michaela Tamaig Fox. Together, we grow [00:55:00] Thank you for tuning in and a huge thank you to Nikki Pope, Ellen Cummings, Jennifer Paxton, and Sophia Fay Rose for their thoughtful contributions on this topic.

Thank you to Samantha Grocott for her help bringing us all together, to Ronan Mooney from the UKI Phorest team for helping coordinate, to Daria Mihalik, creative copywriter at Phorest, who deserves her flowers and co-writing credits on this episode, and to Audio Z, who’ve been editing and mixing the podcast since season four, and who always bring these stories together masterfully with music.

If you’ve enjoyed this episode, the best way to show your support and to let us know is to leave a review and a rating on Apple Podcasts or leave a comment on Spotify as you’re listening. It helps us understand what you like most about the podcast, and it really does make a difference. Phorest FM podcast is brought to you by Phorest Software.

More than software, we’re on a mission, together with our community, to build a stronger industry. 

Alex Bélisle-Springer: This episode was [00:56:00] edited and mixed by Audio Z, Montreal’s cutting-edge post-production studio for creative minds looking to have their vision professionally produced and mixed. Great music makes great moments